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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    Honestly comic Amber thinking he was dealing drugs was a funny(and kinda clever) plot point, kinda miss it
    And a lot more realistic than magically figuring out who he was with zero explanation, yet failing to figure out who Atom Eve was.

    Though in the comic, it would also make sense for her to suspect he was a superhero due to the setting in the comics, and how common superheroes and the tropes that go with them were to the civilians that they had become completely desensitized to it.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Did you not notice that the rest of us were specifically avoiding mentioning what happened in plain text, so that people who have not read the comic won't have a pretty massive event spoiled for them? Use spoiler tags!
    Thanks for asking so nicely. This is a thread about the comic after all, so I have no obligation to, but changed it anyway.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    I'm actually not sure Eve has a secret identity. I seem to remember Amber making an offhand remark about her being a super hero. Which would also make figuring out Mark was one prrtty easy.


    And while I agree that her reaction to Mark's reveal left a little to be desired as a character moment, at least she is a character. Comic Amber kind of wasn't.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I'm actually not sure Eve has a secret identity. I seem to remember Amber making an offhand remark about her being a super hero. Which would also make figuring out Mark was one prrtty easy.


    And while I agree that her reaction to Mark's reveal left a little to be desired as a character moment, at least she is a character. Comic Amber kind of wasn't.
    Comic Amber had far more to her than tv Amber. And the last episode showed both Amber and Will utterly shocked that Eve was a superhero, to the point they actually thought she was duplicate >_>
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  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    No Eve definitely had a secret identity, she mentions in the show she does the hiding in plain sight trick, basically people automatically assume their friend is normal and thus don't even think to put two and two together

  6. #36
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Comic Amber had far more to her than tv Amber.
    Factually inaccurate.

    Even if you want to take the view that comic Amber is complexly written than TV Amber [I would say she definitely isn't] I don't think there's any metric by which the term "far," could be employed here.
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  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Factually inaccurate.

    Even if you want to take the view that comic Amber is complexly written than TV Amber [I would say she definitely isn't] I don't think there's any metric by which the term "far," could be employed here.
    An opinion isn't factual when it is about preferences of a character Nik, but I will say that yes, I find she is better written than her sue counterpart.

    And when did I say any character from Invincible, let alone Amber, is complexly written?
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  8. #38
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    An opinion isn't factual when it is about preferences of a character Nik, but I will say that yes, she is better written than her sue counterpart. If you have an issue with my use of "far", then, I gotta say that's kinda silly.

    And when did I say any character from Invincible, let alone Amber, is complexly written?
    Missed a "more," there in my previous post, apologies for the lack of clarity.

    I'll stress, I don't think either version of Amber is particularly interesting as characters go; but TV show Amber is definitely the stronger in terms of writing, agency and characterisation. My issue with your use of the term 'far' is that we're talking some small scale characters and any differences between them are minor at best.

    At large though, I am genuinely quite fascinated that someone would take the view that Amber in comic has much of anything going on. She is suuuper shallow and the way her domestic abuse storyline is executed is some of the worst writing in the series by quite a margin. TV show Amber actually has a personality and a facets to her character outside of "she's Mark's normal girlfriend," which is more than comic Amber ever gets.

    Also, love to see the frankly terrible term "sue," being used in your description.
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  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    It's okay, sorry for saying it was silly .

    Amber in the show seems to be virtually everything, is brave, strong, and smart, to the point that few things faze her, even monsters who can kill her with a flick as she goes and leads the boys into danger to save others despite never being in that situation before. While she seems to figure things out way to easily because reasons. She manages to scare a bully into asking Mark out, despite the fact he dwarfs her in size, all because she kicked him from behind.

    And seems to be entitled to Marks identity despite them not going out nearly as long as comic Amber and Mark were going out, and instead of being called on it for being selfish(like, a secret identity is there to protect ones privacy, personal life, and family, not something a newbie girlfriend/boyfriend should feel entitled too, especially when they get mad at Mark for leaving, despite supposedly already knowing he was a superhero), Marks supposed childhood best friend ends up insulting him, and puts him down instead, agreeing with her because she couldn't possibly be in the wrong!

    That's why I liked comic Amber, she was flawed. She wasn't perfect, she couldn't do it all like tv Amber. She thought Mark was on drugs before he revealed who he really was because she wasn't all knowing like her tv counterpart seemingly is and based her suspicions on not only his absences, but him being drained from balancing his personal life with his superhero life. It was a realistic guess based on what she saw.

    She acted like a normal person when shit when down unlike tv Amber who has to act like a first responder because reasons, she isn't super tough, yet doesn't have entitlement issues towards his identity like her t.v. counterpart, all while her reaction to finding out his identity was that of a normal human being not:
    "I already knew but never wanted to tell you I knew so I can continue getting mad at you for your absences because you have the audacity not to tell me who you are".

    Like, if they wrote Ambers backstory a bit to give her a reason to have as so many strong traits, or made her out to be a secret superhero herself, then great, we have at least some reasoning here(save the entitlement around his identity). But as it stands now? I find that she has just too much going for her.

    She is just too perfect :/. A type of character I've hated since the Gary Stues of old plagued cinema in the form of action heroes, martial arts(Seagal anyone?)and gunslinging cowboys who were the bestest, toughest, most honourable guys around who could rarely do wrong! *Puke*.
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  10. #40
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    She is just too perfect :/. A type of character I've hated since the Gary Stues of old plagued cinema in the form of action heroes, martial arts(Seagal anyone?)and gunslinging cowboys who were the bestest, toughest, most honourable guys around who could rarely do wrong! *Puke*.
    I'll note that you write that the character is "too perfect," while also complaining that she is imperfect in her interactions with Mark.

    Surely, you need to pick one?

    Without getting into the specifics of your beef with Amber as a character, this is why I don't think the Stu/Sue terms are useful. Amber doesn't have nearly enough narrative clout to be what a Sue was meant to be in the inception of the term. She doesn't bend the narrative around herself, she is a supporting character. You can not like her because... she helps people and doesn't give Mark much rope in how he interacts with her... or whatever (I broadly don't understand your complaints but whatever) but the Sue term doesn't work.

    I strongly advise people to drop it as descriptor. It's a term that was created for fanfiction and works best in that context. Slapping it on supporting characters just because you don't like them just muddies the waters as to your meaning.
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  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I'll note that you write that the character is "too perfect," while also complaining that she is imperfect in her interactions with Mark.

    Surely, you need to pick one?

    Without getting into the specifics of your beef with Amber as a character, this is why I don't think the Stu/Sue terms are useful. Amber doesn't have nearly enough narrative clout to be what a Sue was meant to be in the inception of the term. She doesn't bend the narrative around herself, she is a supporting character. You can not like her because... she helps people and doesn't give Mark much rope in how he interacts with her... or whatever (I broadly don't understand your complaints but whatever) but the Sue term doesn't work.

    I strongly advise people to drop it as descriptor. It's a term that was created for fanfiction and works best in that context. Slapping it on supporting characters just because you don't like them just muddies the waters as to your meaning.
    The point is no normal person acts the way she acts. She is way too brave, figures things out she has no business knowing, and has a holiourthanthou attitude that the show presents as correct. Thus her portrayal as this "perfect" being.

    A Mary Sue is a type of fictional character, usually a young woman, who is portrayed as unrealistically free of weaknesses. That is the definition presented by wiki. And that is what she is, as she has zero faults to her.
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  12. #42
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    The point is no normal person acts the way she acts. She is way too brave, figures things out she has no business knowing, and has a holiourthanthou attitude that the show presents as correct. Thus her portrayal as this "perfect" being.
    I mean, people literally try and protect other people in crisis situations in real life. Happens quite a lot. I don't think Amber was somehow "excessively" brave because she tried to help a guy when a killer robot turned up, that feels pretty normal to me.

    Also, Amber had already been established as having a humanitarian streak when we saw her working in her community centre. One could argue that being compassionate to others was her single most observable trait. This is also a thing real people do.

    I don't know what you're reaching for specifically with your assertion of a "holi-than-thou attitude" because her main character traits amounted to "Hey cutie, want to come to my local soup kitchen to help out ?" and "Why are you consistently late and flakey? >" Neither of which involve her projecting a judge-y attitude toward any of the other characters for their lack of moral fortitude.

    Like... I flatly did not perceive the show holding her up as perfect in the manner you describe.

    A Mary Sue is a type of fictional character, usually a young woman, who is portrayed as unrealistically free of weaknesses. That is the definition presented by wiki. And that is what she is, as she has zero faults to her.
    "Unrealistically free of weaknesses,"

    Ah yes, normal girl who works at soup kitchen, such a power fantasy.

    The Mary Sue back in the day when the term was rising to prominence in online culture, specifically in fanfiction circles, meant to be so absurdly beyond the power curve for what was reasonable that she rendered all other characters pointless in the face of her abilities. Amber is a supporting character, she cannot have the impact of what classical Mary Sue is because the story does not centre on her. Also, the original term was to imply that the character was an authorial surrogate, which Amber plainly isn't.

    Again, it's a poor term when used outside of fanfiction because the defining traits are centred on a new character inserted into an established hierarchy.
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  13. #43
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Not entirely sure how the thread switched to Amber but, like, how can she be a Mary Sue if she doesn't really do anything besides argue with Mark?
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  14. #44
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Anyway, back on topic!





    At any rate, does Eve have a way to stop Sue from popping a bubble in her head?
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  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Not entirely sure how the thread switched to Amber but, like, how can she be a Mary Sue if she doesn't really do anything besides argue with Mark?
    I explained this, it was her having no weaknesses(a charitable profession at a kitchen doesn't even have anything to do with anything here, so not sure why that was brought up in the face of the literal translation of the term) and seemingly knows everything because........no reason. Like....none at all given to how she manages to figure out Marks identity or explains why it didn't faze her at all. Or explains why those closer to Mark would take the side of someone who they barely know to the point of outright verbally insulting their closest friend.

    I already gave a further explanation above.
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