Power Level complains

[JackDaw]

The reason why Flash needs to be faster than light is because he travels in time just by running. Do you even realize how fast lightspeed is?

Lightspeed is 7 laps around the world in one second. You think Superman needs to be able to take 7 laps around the world in one second? You think Diana needs to take 7 laps around the world in one second?

They are all fictional characters, none of them “need” to do anything but feature in interesting stories.

One of the best eras of Flash stories featured a Flash who struggled to beat the sound barrier….there’s no more need for the Flash to travel at light speed than Wonder Woman or Superman…adventures in time and space have formed a staple of their stories for decades.

[Rightoya]

The reason why Flash needs to be faster than light is because he travels in time just by running. Do you even realize how fast lightspeed is?

Lightspeed is 7 laps around the world in one second. You think Superman needs to be able to take 7 laps around the world in one second? You think Diana needs to take 7 laps around the world in one second?

When has Hunter Zolomon become Flash? Lightspeed is not particularly fast for beings who travel to other solar systems or galaxies.

Yeah i do, and even more, that is why i have said faster than light.

Not only is that speed absurd, you're also telling me that Superman and Wonder Woman should be able to perceive time at that velocity. That would make them absolutely unstoppable because they could destroy an entire city in 1 second without anyone noticing.

Lightspeed is far from absurd in a genre where beings move moons and planets, and even Wonder Woman in modern times had luckily a notable amount of stories where she clearly perceived at relativistic, light or faster than light. This thread is not about the DCEU as far as i can tell, destroying a city in 1 second is an absolute joke to countless of beings in the DC comic verse including several portrayals of Superman and Wonder Woman, and if they would be just lightspeed and Flash continues as he is could he as example still effortlesly stop them besides countless of other beings.

If Superman was faster than light, any time a villain took over his mind, they could destroy the entire United States in one minute without anyone even being able to perceive him.

The Justice League could perceive and stop him, if properly written.

And certainly Flash allegedly a science based hero (lol!) should rationally be limited to light speed, while Wonder Woman, magic based, need not be.

Yeah, any time i see real life or scientific arguments against Wonder Woman of all characters, i just cringe. It is silly enough against Superman already, but with him they at least included some pseudo science in the past, but i don't remember them ever even pretending to follow any scientfic rules with Wonder Woman which also sounds like an absolute crazy idea to me.

[Alpha]

Lightspeed is far from absurd in a genre where beings move moons and planets

when was the last time a character moved a planet?

and even Wonder Woman in modern times had luckily a notable amount of stories where she clearly perceived at relativistic, light or faster than light.

Perceived movement so fast that it could take 7 laps around the entire world in one second? When did she do that?


And there's no way that the Justice League could stop a faster than light speed Superman from destroying the United States in one minute.

First of all, it would take minutes for them to realize he had started a rampage. It's not like they have technology to track him at light speed. And they don't have a system that can recognize and alert them to disasters in the instant that they are happening.


And it would take them a long ass time to find him if he was moving at lightspeed, even if they themselves were moving at the same speed as him. I mean, the guy can take 7 laps around the world in one second, how the hell are you going to find him at that speed when he could be literally anywhere.

[Alpha]

If Superman or Wonder woman want to travel in space they can just use Zeta Beams or Boom Tubes.

[JackDaw]

If Superman or Wonder woman want to travel in space they can just use Zeta Beams or Boom Tubes.

If Flash wants to travel in time, he can use a time machine. Oh…and he could kill millions of people if he goes rogue…unless some other heroes are fast enough to catch him.

I don’t really understand why you want to apply a different set of limitations on Wonder Woman and Superman compared to the Flash.

[Alpha]

If Flash wants to travel in time, he can use a time machine. Oh…and he could kill millions of people if he goes rogue…unless some other heroes are fast enough to catch him.

He's not supposed to travel in time. That's why his time travel speed powers are necessary for the narrative but can't relly on a device he's not supposed to have access to.

Flash travelling in time is like Banner transforming into Hulk, it's never a good thing, and it's something he is always in risk of doing and messing up.

Wonder Woman and Superman have no need for that speed. They are more than capable without bringing in these absurd levels. I don't lilke just adding onto these characters for no freaking reason. Like, I can appreciate unique powers really specific to them that really have a thematic reason behind it, not just making them supernova level threats.

I'm surprised you guys aren't asking for Jason Aaron to write these characters.

[Perseus]

In terms of speed she should be easily faster then light.

Raw Speed (i.e. point A to point B): massively faster then light, like travel between solar systems in a few hours fast, similar to Superman

Combat Speed/Reaction Time (i.e. seeing and perceiving things while reacting to them): femtosecond to near attosecond, similar to Flash but only in H2H speeds, this is primaraliy due to her god given speed and her thousands of years of experience

[Perseus]

Wonder Woman and Superman have no need for that speed. They are more than capable without bringing in these absurd levels. I don't lilke just adding onto these characters for no freaking reason. Like, I can appreciate unique powers really specific to them that really have a thematic reason behind it, not just making them supernova level threats.

I'm surprised you guys aren't asking for Jason Aaron to write these characters.

You know I got a tinny bit of flak for the first posts I made on this thread, that stat list of where I think Diana at the absolute top should be. But that's partly the point of this thread. Diana frankly is that powerful, in my eyes, she has enough feats to where you can put her on that level, when she's going 100%. And she does have villains and can be put into situations that would require her to be that absurd sometimes.

I actually wanted Aaron to write Diana for a bit, but I didn't like all the massive changes he made to Thor's mythos just for fun, and tbh Jane isn't really on Diana's level either.

[JackDaw]

He's not supposed to travel in time. That's why his time travel speed powers are necessary for the narrative but can't relly on a device he's not supposed to have access to.

Flash travelling in time is like Banner transforming into Hulk, it's never a good thing, and it's something he is always in risk of doing and messing up.

Wonder Woman and Superman have no need for that speed. They are more than capable without bringing in these absurd levels. I don't lilke just adding onto these characters for no freaking reason. Like, I can appreciate unique powers really specific to them that really have a thematic reason behind it, not just making them supernova level threats.

I'm surprised you guys aren't asking for Jason Aaron to write these characters.

If it’s never a good thing why does he keep doing it?

Is Jason Aaron the only writer that relentlessly overpowers his characters? I seem to recall Mark Waid increasing Wally West’s abilities…and large majority of Flash fans loving it.

For a large chunk of the Waid run the default plot was Wally losing a fight, then entering the speed force, getting a new ability, then using it to triumph.

Must admit the part where it was “always a bad thing” or he changed into a monster escaped my attention….

Practically all DC characters have been ramped up at some point or other. There’s no real reason why Wonder Woman should not be treated similarly…indeed part of her very conception is that she should be top range in wisdom, speed, strength, durability, compassion.

[Alpha]

I don't even recall Marston making a big deal about Wonder Woman's speed. The only moment I recall of her movimg particularly fast was when swimming, but i might be confusing that with Robert Kanigher.

[AmiMizuno]

I personally think Diana's body should be impossible to dysmorph, but is specially easy to have it's mind separated from her body.

In terms of how much damage a magic lightning or magical crushing rocks should do? As much as a fictional thing does to another fictional thing. Whatever the writer wants for the plot.

True the issue is at times many writers have set rules but than change it. Like how Circe was able to change Diana back into clay.

[marhawkman]

True the issue is at times many writers have set rules but than change it. Like how Circe was able to change Diana back into clay.

There have been Justice League stories that dealt with it. In one story aliens decided to mess with the JL by separating their dual natures so that the "hero" version and civilian identity were separate people, in WW's case her "hero" form was a golem-like living statue. Then there was a story arc involving time travel BS where most of the JL get killed. WW's corpse looked like a broken statue. Then there was a vampire story, and one of the vampires mentioned he can't drink WW's blood, cause, well it's not real blood.

[Superfan90]

The reason why Flash needs to be faster than light is because he travels in time just by running. Do you even realize how fast lightspeed is?

Lightspeed is 7 laps around the world in one second. You think Superman needs to be able to take 7 laps around the world in one second? You think Diana needs to take 7 laps around the world in one second?

Superman traveled in time before Flash even existed and did it for 50 years.

[Mysterious]

I don't even recall Marston making a big deal about Wonder Woman's speed. The only moment I recall of her movimg particularly fast was when swimming, but i might be confusing that with Robert Kanigher.

He would usually portray her moving faster than light. "Crowd cheers as The amazing amazon rushes to the burning building moving faster than the speed of light."

[AmiMizuno]

Another question how well should Diana be to fight off mind control ?