Power Level complains

[Alpha]

And I'm asking why Diana needs to be at that level. You are free to explain why you find it necessary. I suppose you can even say that you don't have a particular reason why she needs to, but you just feel like she should. I wouldn't be satisfied with that answer, but it doesn't matter what I feel about it. I just want a good reason.

[I'm a Fish]

And I'm asking why Diana needs to be at that level. You are free to explain why you find it necessary. I suppose you can even say that you don't have a particular reason why she needs to, but you just feel like she should. I wouldn't be satisfied with that answer, but it doesn't matter what I feel about it. I just want a good reason.

Because it’s fun.

I’m not picky though. I’ll read it regardless if she can move planets or not. Like I said, my favorite fight doesn’t even have her doing anything like that. . My favorite moments usually don’t have her doing stuff like that either. But it’s fun, and I like the artwork.

[Perseus]

And I'm asking why Diana needs to be at that level. You are free to explain why you find it necessary. I suppose you can even say that you don't have a particular reason why she needs to, but you just feel like she should. I wouldn't be satisfied with that answer, but it doesn't matter what I feel about it. I just want a good reason.

Diana was created with a partial intention of her being as powerful as the most powerful man in DC comics. Her creator wanted to prove that Diana can easily play with the big boys both physically or in her own way. That's why you have her moving stars and tossing planets. Because if the most powerful man could, so can she and she didn't need to be his cousin or sister or have any relation to him to prove that she could, she just could do it. She herself had that kind of power.

Her most powerful villains have always operated on a level far beyond what I've mentioned and she's been that powerful and still needed support to fight them. Not everyone of her villains need to threaten the universe, but they shouldn't be reduced to just regular people either. I want Blue Snowman to be like an evil Ironman type that uses cryogenic weapons, I think the mask should be an IT specialists that used nuclear powered robots instead of regular henchmen to fight Diana, I want Cyber to be like Ultron constantly gathering data and power and advancing herself to be what she thinks is more then Diana.

She was also one of the few heavy hitters that had skill and wisdom to back her up. She was on Superman's level and a skilled fighter, you only really see that in anime. It defiantly separated her from the flying brick trope, which she did have except in her most well know stories that oddly enough have her displaying those skills.

And her power has never stopped writers from telling amazing stories with amazing villains. Why should that be an excuse now?

For a while she was decently consistent not golden age level but powerful, I wished her villains were that way, but at least she was. It was awesome watching Diana hold her own against DC's biggest guns and come out as the winner. But now she's not even close to what she once was. She seems to be the only character in DC that has consistently advanced backwards in power. Its tiring ready stories where she's in the background at best or glossed over because Superman or SHAZAM or Martian Manhunter or whoever is also in the book. Or having writers hype her up, use that good old nostalgia of how powerful Diana was only to have her shafted in the comic. Or having her forget she has certain powers.

[Alpha]

Diana was created with a partial intention of her being as powerful as the most powerful man in DC comics. Her creator wanted to prove that Diana can easily play with the big boys both physically or in her own way. That's why you have her moving stars and tossing planets. Because if the most powerful man could, so can she and she didn't need to be his cousin or sister or have any relation to him to prove that she could, she just could do it. She herself had that kind of power.

I suppose that's a good excuse. I don't want Superman to be able to move a planet (at most a mountain), but if you actually enjoy stories of heroes moving planets then it makes sense you would put Diana next to her if you still think her original intention of being as overwhelming as Superman. I guess it really comes down to those two questions then.

"Should Superman be able to move a planet" and "does Wonder Woman still need to be the female Superman in order to be respected". I would say no to both questions, but I can't argue anymore with someone that enjoys it. I just hope you also understand that I would have no interest in a story about Diana moving planets nor one about the entire world being unable to destroy Superman all together.

[Perseus]

"Should Superman be able to move a planet" and "does Wonder Woman still need to be the female Superman in order to be respected". I would say no to both questions, but I can't argue anymore with someone that enjoys it. I just hope you also understand that I would have no interest in a story about Diana moving planets nor one about the entire world being unable to destroy Superman all together.

People throw around the term "female superman" like its an insult honestly. Besides physical stats and a similar color plate they are two different characters with a wide a ray of powers, with different origins and philosophies. If you wanna say she's basically Superman in terms of power then heck yeah she is, I don't think its bad to make that comparison.

[Primal Slayer]

I've always seen Diana as slightly weaker than Superman but due to her training, it more than makes up for the difference. Not everything is about pure strength which I see Superman as. He's the brute, Diana is the skill, Batman is the brain.

[Perseus]

I've always seen Diana as slightly weaker than Superman but due to her training, it more than makes up for the difference. Not everything is about pure strength which I see Superman as. He's the brute, Diana is the skill, Batman is the brain.

I've said this before but the gap in raw strength between Diana and Clark is there but its not big or really something that would be a dramatic difference between them. Like Diana is going to hit as hard and actually faster then Clark because that's what she focuses on. If this was a bench pressing contest Clark is going to win by a few thousand tons, if this was a fight Diana is going to win. But when your dealing with characters that can move planets a few thousand tons doesn't make a big difference.

[Alpha]

People throw around the term "female superman" like its an insult honestly. Besides physical stats and a similar color plate they are two different characters with a wide a ray of powers, with different origins and philosophies. If you wanna say she's basically Superman in terms of power then heck yeah she is, I don't think its bad to make that comparison.

I'm not disagreeing with that, I just don't think she needs to be compared to Superman's strength all the time. Not that I dislike her being able to fight him better than anyone else, but to me that's not just about strength, it's about her technique and the use of the lasso. Has she ever used the lasso in a fight vs Superman? I can't remember that ever happening. I mean, it's a freaking unbreakable rope. It must have some use in there. And it's something no other enemy he has uses, so he would not be used to fighting against it.

[Perseus]

I'm not disagreeing with that, I just don't think she needs to be compared to Superman's strength all the time. Not that I dislike her being able to fight him better than anyone else, but to me that's not just about strength, it's about her technique and the use of the lasso. Has she ever used the lasso in a fight vs Superman? I can't remember that ever happening. I mean, it's a freaking unbreakable rope. It must have some use in there. And it's something no other enemy he has uses, so he would not be used to fighting against it.

She's used it twice on him, both times to end the fight. Lasso is kind of a hacks equipment so the fights mainly go for so long until Diana gets an opportunity to lasso him.

[Rightoya]

People forget how random powers were during the golden age. In one page Diana would be able to hold tons of people trapped in a cage with her bare teeth, and in the very next page she would get knocked out by a gun butt.

Nobody forgets that, it just don't matters, because these characters were clearly above planetary beings who just got nerfed for the other stories. In modern stories you just don't go as crazy as silver age Superman, but also don't nerf them like that anymore, or that is at least what a good writer would do.

[Rightoya]

People forget how random powers were during the golden age. In one page Diana would be able to hold tons of people trapped in a cage with her bare teeth, and in the very next page she would get knocked out by a gun butt.

Nobody forgets that, it just don't matters, because these characters were clearly above planetary beings who just got nerfed for the other stories. In modern stories you just don't go as crazy as silver age Superman, but also don't nerf them like that anymore, or that is at least what a good writer would do.

And I'm asking why Diana needs to be at that level. You are free to explain why you find it necessary. I suppose you can even say that you don't have a particular reason why she needs to, but you just feel like she should. I wouldn't be satisfied with that answer, but it doesn't matter what I feel about it. I just want a good reason.

Because it is the core of the archetype she represents, Wonder Woman works typically much better if she is powerful and follows her other themes, than if she is not powerful because the writer can't handle that. Even Christopher Priest of all people has an example for that, Jesse Quick Plus where Wonder Woman runs besides half the speed of light Jesse Quick and even later on catches her entering the Speed Force is 1 of the very few stories with Wonder Woman where he was a writer that is not toilet paper, and other stories from him are trash like the 1 where Wonder Woman nearly died to bullets that got deflected by Superman's body.

I suppose that's a good excuse. I don't want Superman to be able to move a planet (at most a mountain), but if you actually enjoy stories of heroes moving planets then it makes sense you would put Diana next to her if you still think her original intention of being as overwhelming as Superman. I guess it really comes down to those two questions then.

"Should Superman be able to move a planet" and "does Wonder Woman still need to be the female Superman in order to be respected". I would say no to both questions, but I can't argue anymore with someone that enjoys it. I just hope you also understand that I would have no interest in a story about Diana moving planets nor one about the entire world being unable to destroy Superman all together.

What makes moving a mountain better than moving a planet, and what purpose has a Superman who can get stopped by humanity which at least the real world humanity shouldn't even be able to even if he can just move mountains and is maybe hypersonic, but most important how is it anything else than blatant disrespect to turn a character whose whole first idea it was to be the female Superman in the way of having the same meaning into something lesser?

[Alpha]

Nobody here is proposing a Wonder Woman that isn't powerful.

What purpose does a Superman that can move planets have?
Superman moving a mountain puts him on the level of most of the interplanetary villains he faces. Any villain that can destroy an entire planet alone is far too powerful for a normal story. That's an end of the world story that should be a major Justice League storyline, not a Superman storyline. And Superman shouldn't be able to take down all by himself any threat the Justice League faces.

And there's a whole lot more to Wonder Woman than her being compared to Superman in terms of strength. That's not even the most interesting or awesome or inspiring thing about her. That's why I don't see a need for it. But I've already established that if you think Marston's intention of creating a female Superman should be maintained in the strictest sense, then there's isn't much I can tell you. So I don't see why we are discussing this whole thing about comparing Superman to Wonder Woman. Specially when I also said that I like that while Wonder Woman is strong, what allows her to fight Superman is her skill.

[Rightoya]

Nobody here is proposing a Wonder Woman that isn't powerful.

You indirectly kind of talked about a Wonder Woman who is not even as powerful as Spider Man at his best.

What purpose does a Superman that can move planets have?

What purpose does a Superman that can move mountains have?

Superman moving a mountain puts him on the level of most of the interplanetary villains he faces.

When became Superman's interplanetary villains that weak?

Any villain that can destroy an entire planet alone is far too powerful for a normal story.

Why?

That's an end of the world story that should be a major Justice League storyline, not a Superman storyline.

The main reason for interplanetary villains are end of the world stories, and since when is saving the world not a typical Superman storyline anymore?

And Superman shouldn't be able to take down all by himself any threat the Justice League faces.

That is why Superman should be not the only planetary superhero in the Justice League.

And there's a whole lot more to Wonder Woman than her being compared to Superman in terms of strength. That's not even the most interesting or awesome or inspiring thing about her. That's why I don't see a need for it. But I've already established that if you think Marston's intention of creating a female Superman should be maintained in the strictest sense, then there's isn't much I can tell you.

Respecting the core of and reason for the existence of the character Wonder Woman is not going with Marston's intentions in the strictest sense, it is just respecting the character.

So I don't see why we are discussing this whole thing about comparing Superman to Wonder Woman. Specially when I also said that I like that while Wonder Woman is strong, what allows her to fight Superman is her skill.

Wonder Woman is not pre crisis Karate Kid, and skill can't overcome distinctly different power levels, if skill does that it is not truly skill but magic or bad writing.

[Alpha]

I'm tired of this. This is boring. Sorry you aren't enjoying her stories. I'll head out of this thread since this isn't going anywhere for either of us

[Mistah K88]

There are plenty of ways to "destroy" the planet, but the problem is that everyone will only take it seriously if it is some sort of physical force. What good is being able to move a planet (which is kind of goofy to be honest) against a plague or mass paranoia?