Power Level complains

[BiteTheBullet]

Not at all. I merely pointed out the last time I read of Mary Marvel taking on Diana in a prolonged engagement. That it happened to be a more powerful version and that WE still dealt with her efficiently are mere the details from FINAL CRISIS.

With WW there is no need to cherry pick on any matter. While it might be unreasonable to expect a writer or editor to know every iota of a character's 80+ year history it is NOT unreasonable to know their designs. For WW, Supes, and Captain Marvel it is well documented in multiple sources.

My issue with the example you gave implied (at least to me) that it doesn't matter if Diana has jobbed out to Mary recently (and often), but that she has defeated her at least once in the past. Sounds like you are giving the writers and editors a free pass.

Not sure if it works this way, but the Shazam family share their powers so that if more than one is active, then the rest can't access as much of the power as if only one was? If so, why does it seem the writers never use this 'character bible rule' as they should? I don't think I have ever seen Mary Marvel at nothing but peak power regardless if her 'brothers' were there or not. Of course, if Shiva teaches Mary Marvel how to fight over the course of months it makes any of the lifelong training that Wondy has as DC's best melee fighter to get thrown right out the door.

[marhawkman]

My issue with the example you gave implied (at least to me) that it doesn't matter if Diana has jobbed out to Mary recently (and often), but that she has defeated her at least once in the past. Sounds like you are giving the writers and editors a free pass.

Not sure if it works this way, but the Shazam family share their powers so that if more than one is active, then the rest can't access as much of the power as if only one was? If so, why does it seem the writers never use this 'character bible rule' as they should? I don't think I have ever seen Mary Marvel at nothing but peak power regardless if her 'brothers' were there or not. Of course, if Shiva teaches Mary Marvel how to fight over the course of months it makes any of the lifelong training that Wondy has as DC's best melee fighter to get thrown right out the door.

It usually only comes up as a plot point if the big bad is too strong for Billy or Mary to beat while the power is shared. An example of which is when Billy fought Teth Adam.

Also I feel the need to point out is that some level of fighting skill comes from the S part of SHAZAM... Wisdom of Solomon. Marvels... to include Black Mary and Teth Adam... should not be written as noobs in hand-to-hand combat whether they have formal training or otherwise.

[phonogram12]

I'm kinda skeptical on that first part. For one thing it's never made sense to me that an entire race of aliens would be more powerful than gods (especially when Krypton had its own gods)...

Well, I mean, that's assuming that gods from every planet posses similar power levels. As with aliens, it could (and should) vary from planet to planet.

...but if you have something like the New Krypton arc/any number of stories where they find entire civilizations of Kryptonian-like aliens who are all as strong as Superman, it basically means every other superhero is kinda useless and no villain is a real threat unless they're dealing with magic.

Well, and kryptonite and the possibility of Earth's sun becoming red on the odd chance of that happening. But you raise a valid point, which is why I never cared for more Kryptonians than Superman, Supergirl, Krypto, and Zod (and maybe the other two Phantom Zone Criminals) to have survived the planet's destruction.

[Perseus]

To be fair with the Mary Marvel incidents, that's a Tom Taylor thing, and I genuinely believe that he just Doesn't like Diana and uses her like everyone else does, a prop for other characters.

[Perseus]

If I had to choose between Mary Marvel and Supergirl as the go to female equivalent for Diana, or close to at least, I'd pick Mary. Kara is and always has been below Diana in power. I really don't need to see an amped Kara get her butt handed to her again by a holding back Diana to prove that. But despite my belief that she's stronger than Kara, Mary should still be weaker than Diana. again, Stronger than Heracles.

[witchboy]

If I had to choose between Mary Marvel and Supergirl as the go to female equivalent for Diana, or close to at least, I'd pick Mary. Kara is and always has been below Diana in power. I really don't need to see an amped Kara get her butt handed to her again by a holding back Diana to prove that. But despite my belief that she's stronger than Kara, Mary should still be weaker than Diana. again, Stronger than Heracles.

I would think Earth 1 Kara was stronger than Earth 1 Diana. That was the version that had Superboy tying a giant chain around a bunch of planets and moving them across space. Earth 1 Kryptonians by far should be the more powerful versions of them.

[Primal Slayer]

While I know DC would never let i happen but even back when New Krypton was a thing....I was thinking to myself "this would be a perfect event to have Diana and other heroes step up and show what they're made of".

Have a new team of Kryptonians go "evil" and bring in Diana & team to take them down.

To me Kryptonians are the STRONGEST strength wise but strength isn't everything. Flash should be faster than any Kryptonian. WW should be a superior fighter than any Kryptonian, paired with her strength it puts her practically on par with them. Martian. Black Canary (I know this was a big deabt in the SM thread but I STAND BY WHAT I SAID) should be able to harm them via their superhearing, Green Arrow should have some kryptonite arrows for long range attacks. When push comes to shove, yeah it is a hard battle but it is a war that can be won.

A team consisting of:

Wonder Woman
Flash
A Shazam member (Marvel himself or Mary)
Black Canary
Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern
Zatanna
Batman/Green Arrow

Kryptonians beware.

[phonogram12]

To me Kryptonians are the STRONGEST strength wise but strength isn't everything. Flash should be faster than any Kryptonian. WW should be a superior fighter than any Kryptonian, paired with her strength it puts her practically on par with them.

This. All of this (well, except that I think her fighting skills should put her on par with them).

[Perseus]

I would think Earth 1 Kara was stronger than Earth 1 Diana. That was the version that had Superboy tying a giant chain around a bunch of planets and moving them across space. Earth 1 Kryptonians by far should be the more powerful versions of them.

Earth 1 Diana is like golden age, right? That Diana moved the sun. And then in Black and Gold, base Diana did it again, whether that's continuity is up for debate.

The sun is 2.8 octillion tons in mass. Thats waaaaaaayyyyyyyy heavier than a bunch of planets.

[Perseus]

Tbh I actually can believe Diana having limitless strength more so than any kryptonian for the pure fact of her ties to Greek myth. She's stronger than Hercules aka the guy that held the cosmic representation of infinity in Greek Myth. Ironically despite her origins she's never had that 'holding the weight of everything from Atlas' moment the way almost every other character has, even Superman. Besides that, as mentioned, Clark is not the only kryptonian, there are tons of others and even other aliens like martians and daxamites that supposedly come very close as well in terms of powers. So, with Diana, we have the absolute absurdity that is mythology that justifies her being limitless. But Clark and other alien species have to worry about over population with the power tiers, yknow how far is too far with the aliens that also happen to have Gods even more powerful than themselves. This isn't to say that they shouldn't be powerful just that its harder for me to believe it if we are going down a more universal approach.

[Perseus]

Something that does make sense though is Diana being faster than Clark. She has speed given to her by Hermes, she is said to be swifter than him (however you want to define swiftness, that's still comparing her to the God of Speed), she has thousands of years of training and experience in combat and reacting to things to block/dodge/counter them. She should outclass almost everyone in reflexes and combat speed, comparable to Wally West imo.

[witchboy]

Earth 1 Diana is like golden age, right? That Diana moved the sun. And then in Black and Gold, base Diana did it again, whether that's continuity is up for debate.

The sun is 2.8 octillion tons in mass. Thats waaaaaaayyyyyyyy heavier than a bunch of planets.

Golden Age is Earth 2.
I’m pretty sure Earth 1 Diana (Silver and Bronze Age) didn’t have that same power level.
All I’m reacting to here is the assumption that no version of Supergirl was more powerful than WW. I’m pretty sure the Earth 1 Supergirl was stronger than the Earth 1 Wonder Woman.

[Perseus]

This. All of this (well, except that I think her fighting skills should put her on par with them).

We need to abandon this myth that as long as Diana is a good enough fighter than she can compete with other powerhouses, it just isn't true.

[WonderLight789]

While I know DC would never let i happen but even back when New Krypton was a thing....I was thinking to myself "this would be a perfect event to have Diana and other heroes step up and show what they're made of".

Have a new team of Kryptonians go "evil" and bring in Diana & team to take them down.

To me Kryptonians are the STRONGEST strength wise but strength isn't everything. Flash should be faster than any Kryptonian. WW should be a superior fighter than any Kryptonian, paired with her strength it puts her practically on par with them. Martian. Black Canary (I know this was a big deabt in the SM thread but I STAND BY WHAT I SAID) should be able to harm them via their superhearing, Green Arrow should have some kryptonite arrows for long range attacks. When push comes to shove, yeah it is a hard battle but it is a war that can be won.

A team consisting of:

Wonder Woman
Flash
A Shazam member (Marvel himself or Mary)
Black Canary
Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern
Zatanna
Batman/Green Arrow

Kryptonians beware.

How about we stop giving kryptonians special treatment? They aren't the only ones deserving of being the ultimate strength mark. Wonder woman was created to be an absolute powerhouse that could prevalir over any threat. Somebody with unlimited potential that even Gods aren't safe from being surpassed by her. Let's stop trying to maket her as second rate strength with better skills. Because the character has always been meant to be at the top in both. Raw power and skills.

[WonderLight789]

This. All of this (well, except that I think her fighting skills should put her on par with them).

Wonder Woman should be stronger and more skilled than any kryptonian.