Power Level complains

[Stanlos]

The Lauren Montgomery animated Wonder Woman movie is an interesting case study. It came off the heels of Justice League Unlimited, and it was co-written by Gail Simone. Still, that movie has a WW that doesn't fly. This movie, and a handful of other things, make me wonder if creators come in with a pre-conceived notion of WW in mind and just go with their vision.

That Jelenic guy is the reason it reeked. Gail should have been the sole writer and what a different film it would have been

[BiteTheBullet]

That Jelenic guy is the reason it reeked. Gail should have been the sole writer and what a different film it would have been

I have always complained about that movie that despite Gail having some input on the writing, that they somehow 'forgot' that she could fly. If I remember correctly, Gail was either writing her Wonder Woman run at the same time or just finished her stint on it. So....I would want to know if Gail fought for Wonder Woman with respect to her powerset or did she just meekly shut up and let the other writers have their way. It goes once again to Wonder Woman not having a defined powerset and different writers will tell their stories the way they want to. That is why sensation comics gets on my nerves because half of the writers have her land based and others just want to point out how weak she is when she actually encounters someone like a Mongul.

Let me know when writers forget that Superman can fly or job out anyone with just a punch.

Edit....Just read Guy McNichts post and he touched on alot of points that I made. My bad

[DABellWrites]

Yes, I am not arguing that point.

But I think there is more to it too, almost like a prejudice against certain female characters but not others. Supergirl, Mary Marvel and Power Girl rarely have these strength/power problems, especially not to this degree. At Marvel,, Jean Grey is barely perceived as a mutant with some thinking she needs a head-band to use her powers, said to be boring, and the weakest on the team while the other female X-characters are all seen as strong, heroic, powerful and interesting.

People thinking Wonder Woman is weak just because she has a lasso, bracelets and an invisible jet makes no sense.

It's not sexist. It's how the characters are perceived by the fans. Nobody writes Supergirl as being weak because she was never shown to be weak. Kryptonians aren't shown to be weak. Wonder Woman is different, because a lot of people do not understand Wonder Woman. When they see the character these days, she's usually holding a sword or some weapon. They look at "Amazon" and think warrior. They don't understand those things aren't what the character is about, and stands against. Even in ZSJL and WW84, Diana barely did anything without using that sword and her lasso. Maybe the video game will properly showcase what Diana's strength properly. I will also she doesn't have any good epithets like the Man of Steel that fans can associate with. She has the Amazing Amazon, but that never caught on to the general public.
It is just how she's has been largely showcased by the company. Very few people read her book. More folks are exposed to Diana from the Justice League, her association with Superman and Batman, and the JL/Super-Friends cartoons. It was sexist in the past, yes. But, nowadays? No. It's a failure of DC/WB to translate all of Diana's excellent qualities to the larger audience. Not to mention it's a failure of DC Comics to actually show Diana was never weak. Under Jenette Khan was she shown to be equal to Superman?

Also this:https://consumerpsycho.wordpress.com...roes-campaign/

[WonderLight789]

It's not sexist. It's how the characters are perceived by the fans. Nobody writes Supergirl as being weak because she was never shown to be weak. Kryptonians aren't shown to be weak. Wonder Woman is different, because a lot of people do not understand Wonder Woman. When they see the character these days, she's usually holding a sword or some weapon. They look at "Amazon" and think warrior. They don't understand those things aren't what the character is about, and stands against. Even in ZSJL and WW84, Diana barely did anything without using that sword and her lasso. Maybe the video game will properly showcase what Diana's strength properly. I will also she doesn't have any good epithets like the Man of Steel that fans can associate with. She has the Amazing Amazon, but that never caught on to the general public.
It is just how she's has been largely showcased by the company. Very few people read her book. More folks are exposed to Diana from the Justice League, her association with Superman and Batman, and the JL/Super-Friends cartoons. It was sexist in the past, yes. But, nowadays? No. It's a failure of DC/WB to translate all of Diana's excellent qualities to the larger audience. Not to mention it's a failure of DC Comics to actually show Diana was never weak. Under Jenette Khan was she shown to be equal to Superman?

Also this:https://consumerpsycho.wordpress.com...roes-campaign/

Fans? So WW fans perceive her as weak?

It is sexist. Because those industry people know and should know the basics. Shazam, mary ba etc are not even icons. They don't even sell well at all. Comics, merchandise or movies. Yet the industry people have always represented their power sets accurately. Super friendds WW had super strength and speed. But they didn't show it too much. DCAU WW had her classic power set. But they decided to make her far weaker than Superman. While shazam was shown as an equal. Yet shaza, and Diana both have godly powers. So how come the dude can be close to SM and Diana wasn't? sexism. Supergirl is not shown as weak. But she is nothing special compsared to Superman either. and her gender has a lot do with that. Diana is shown as supergirl's superior and powergirl in their encounters. But it doesn't say much. Since those 2 kryptonian women are also not allowed to be as powerful as the guys so. In current media. Aquaman is getting better feats of strength than Diana. Yet he ewas the one that was seen as a joke for decades. So how come now she is below him too? Every other male character is being treated with more respect regarding power level. While Diana the most iconic female. The face of equality and feminism is all over the place. Sexism is still a big factor for this.

[DABellWrites]

Fans? So WW fans perceive her as weak?

It is sexist. Because those industry people know and should know the basics. Shazam, mary ba etc are not even icons. They don't even sell well at all. Comics, merchandise or movies. Yet the industry people have always represented their power sets accurately. Super friendds WW had super strength and speed. But they didn't show it too much. DCAU WW had her classic power set. But they decided to make her far weaker than Superman. While shazam was shown as an equal. Yet shaza, and Diana both have godly powers. So how come the dude can be close to SM and Diana wasn't? sexism. Supergirl is not shown as weak. But she is nothing special compsared to Superman either. and her gender has a lot do with that. Diana is shown as supergirl's superior and powergirl in their encounters. But it doesn't say much. Since those 2 kryptonian women are also not allowed to be as powerful as the guys so. In current media. Aquaman is getting better feats of strength than Diana. Yet he ewas the one that was seen as a joke for decades. So how come now she is below him too? Every other male character is being treated with more respect regarding power level. While Diana the most iconic female. The face of equality and feminism is all over the place. Sexism is still a big factor for this.

What feats of strength does Arthur have? I'd like to know. He controlled the krakan in his movie. Um, he did things in Justice League. I have never seen a panel or discussion about his feats of strength, aside from punching Superman. He doesn't have a comic book far as I know currently. DC Comics treats Wonder Woman far better than Aquaman and he's the one with a billion dollar movie. She's getting the video game before Superman! Yet you keep calling sexism, when it's the opposite. WB/DC is behind Wonder Woman. Not fully behind her, but there's a clear push to get more Wonder Woman in the media.

Also, you should stop downplaying Billy. He was far more iconic than Wonder Woman for years. Captain Marvel Jr. influenced Elvis Presley of all people. Just a few years after DC got the rights to Captain Marvel, he was given a TV show. In the 1980s, he had a cartoon show. Billy Batson was one of the few superheroes that was still on the spin racks back in the 1950s.

Nobody cares about Power Girl if they're not comic book fans. Everyone cares about Supergirl. She's the one with the movies, TV show, and is on merchandise. Kara may be portrayed not as strong as Superman these days, but she's has never been shown as being weak. Why? Because of her connection with Superman.

[hareluyafan1]

Wonder Woman is different, because a lot of people do not understand Wonder Woman. When they see the character these days, she's usually holding a sword or some weapon. They look at "Amazon" and think warrior. They don't understand those things aren't what the character is about, and stands against. Even in ZSJL and WW84, Diana barely did anything without using that sword and her lasso.

I agree with this. I've said it before but Superman doesn't need a sword and shield so why should Wonder Woman? The answer; she doesn't. And this is coming from someone who loves swords and watching sword fights. Oh sure, in certain scenarios it's fine for WW to use one. If say, Brainiac is sending in an army of drones, sure, bust out the sword and shield for that. But they shouldn't be part of her standard kit.

And before anyone says "she needs the sword & shield to stand out from Superman and other "brick" types," no. The lasso, tiara and bracelets make her stand out there.

[hareluyafan1]

I think there is truth to this. Too many creators approach Wonder Woman with this idea of what they think she should be regardless of what's been established, accepted, or sometimes even intended by her own damn creator.

I recall, when asked why she didn't fly in the animated movie, Michael Jelenic--the actual screenwriter--just shrugged and said, "Maybe she'll fly in the next one." Back when Joss Whedon was going to make the movie, he declared outright she wouldn't fly because (his words): "We already have a guy who can fly."

It is frustrating how many creators seem to approach Wonder Woman's powers as "optional."
If someone made a Superman movie or show or anything where he couldn't fly or wasn't the most powerful man in the room, there would be a revolt. It would be unfathomable...or at least understood this is a radically different take on the character.

Wonder Woman's powers, though? Eh...maybe she can fly, maybe she can't. Or maybe she will, but not now. She's strong, but not really that strong. Or maybe she is. Does she even need powers at all? What do you mean she's fast?

It's crazy that even the dismissive "she's just a female Superman" description doesn't register to them that she should at least be really powerful.

I agree. It's mind-boggling.

[Perseus]

Honestly, people complaining about Diana using a sword and shield are getting more annoying than when she actually uses them these days. I'm all for appropriate uses for lethal weaponry but let's not try and have all the blame on poorly handled accessories. How many times has Diana's lasso been properly used and not over-written/made silly via plot induced stupidity? When was the last time she even used her tiara? This current team barely has Diana use a sword and shield and it's a bore to get through...

[hareluyafan1]

Honestly, people complaining about Diana using a sword and shield are getting more annoying than when she actually uses them these days. I'm all for appropriate uses for lethal weaponry but let's not try and have all the blame on poorly handled accessories. How many times has Diana's lasso been properly used and not over-written/made silly via plot induced stupidity? When was the last time she even used her tiara?

I apologize for annoying you.

This current team barely has Diana use a sword and shield and it's a bore to get through...

I was unaware of that.

[Perseus]

I apologize for annoying you.



I was unaware of that.

I'm not directing anything specifically at you, you just happened to hit on a subject that many people here complain about, but I barely see it as a current issue.

Yes, Diana is more than a sword and shield wielding warrior, but that isn't the root cause of why she constantly feels under powered and poorly adapted.

[WonderLight789]

What feats of strength does Arthur have? I'd like to know. He controlled the krakan in his movie. Um, he did things in Justice League. I have never seen a panel or discussion about his feats of strength, aside from punching Superman. He doesn't have a comic book far as I know currently. DC Comics treats Wonder Woman far better than Aquaman and he's the one with a billion dollar movie. She's getting the video game before Superman! Yet you keep calling sexism, when it's the opposite. WB/DC is behind Wonder Woman. Not fully behind her, but there's a clear push to get more Wonder Woman in the media.

Also, you should stop downplaying Billy. He was far more iconic than Wonder Woman for years. Captain Marvel Jr. influenced Elvis Presley of all people. Just a few years after DC got the rights to Captain Marvel, he was given a TV show. In the 1980s, he had a cartoon show. Billy Batson was one of the few superheroes that was still on the spin racks back in the 1950s.

Nobody cares about Power Girl if they're not comic book fans. Everyone cares about Supergirl. She's the one with the movies, TV show, and is on merchandise. Kara may be portrayed not as strong as Superman these days, but she's has never been shown as being weak. Why? Because of her connection with Superman.

DCEU AQ lifted a huge submarine. Post Flashpoint AQ took a continent level attack and has better lifting feats than WW or at least on par. In the justice society movie. He destroyed her underwater. And still overpowered her on land. So

Superman has had many movies and videogames. Even after he had many Bix office disappointments and games that didn't sell well. They still give him more content and always treat his power set with fa more respect than WW. So her getting a solo videogame after existing for 81 years does not mean DC cares much for WW. And let's see how her power and lore are treated there. we will see.

As for shazam. TV show, merchandise, movies? WW has had all that. And on a higher scale than shazam. His solo movie made 366M vs WW 822M. I did not discredit shazam. I pointed out that he also gets more respect for his lore and power set than WW. Yet he is not on WW's level in terms of iconic status. And there are plenty of characters and indutry people that WW has influenced as well. shazam is not even close to be the instantly globally recognizable icon that WW has been for decades.

And WW has been portrayed as weak why? Because of sexism. Because DC and WB can allow a magic, godly powerd boy be equal to Superman such as shazam. But the stronger than Hercules, faster than Mercury, wise as Athena magic, godly powered woman that was created to be superman equal is not allowed to have the same treatment. She has to settle to be super human warrior. Yet she is a far more recognizable icon and comercially successful figure than the boy with the same type of powers and power source as her. And you think sexism has nothing to do with this? Please. It is super easy for anybody, let alone profesional writers and industry people, to do a quick research and know what Diana's powers are and how powerful she is supposed to be. They decide to ignore it because of bias, homofobia and sexism. Her character is too controversial for white straight privileged people. So they have to make her less than the foster boy. Yet their powers are the same. And come from the same source aka Gods. and in Diana's case. She is the one historically made to be stronger and faster than Gods that gave shazam powers. Sure sexism has a lot to do with this. Because from a comercial point of view. she makes more money than him for the label. So there is no reason to make her less based on that. While WW can barely be allowed to be on par with aquaman based on feats these days in the comics. They have been reducing her power level since 2011, way before the sword and shield became standard gear. They go out of her way to make her as generic and weak as possible. They hype her as the greatest warrior, yet her battles in comics and movies since 2011 are underwhelming most of the time, and she is more often than not. Getting her ass beat by brutes that didn't train a day in their lives. ironically, her so called amazing skills as the best warrior in DC are also nowhere to be seen. As in most battles she doesn't look like she trained in combat or in sword fighting a day in her life. But sure. DC is not sexist and they are pushing for more WW contet. She is getting a little more exposure nowadays. In matrerial where she is portrayed badly most of the time and seen as the physically weakest of the team. Not a good look for the feminist girl power icon. Sexism.

[WonderLight789]

I'm not directing anything specifically at you, you just happened to hit on a subject that many people here complain about, but I barely see it as a current issue.

Yes, Diana is more than a sword and shield wielding warrior, but that isn't the root cause of why she constantly feels under powered and poorly adapted.

Exactly. What did you think of my post above? Did you think i hit the right angle?

[Agent Z]

It's not sexist. It's how the characters are perceived by the fans. Nobody writes Supergirl as being weak because she was never shown to be weak. Kryptonians aren't shown to be weak. Wonder Woman is different, because a lot of people do not understand Wonder Woman. When they see the character these days, she's usually holding a sword or some weapon. They look at "Amazon" and think warrior. They don't understand those things aren't what the character is about, and stands against. Even in ZSJL and WW84, Diana barely did anything without using that sword and her lasso. Maybe the video game will properly showcase what Diana's strength properly. I will also she doesn't have any good epithets like the Man of Steel that fans can associate with. She has the Amazing Amazon, but that never caught on to the general public.
It is just how she's has been largely showcased by the company. Very few people read her book. More folks are exposed to Diana from the Justice League, her association with Superman and Batman, and the JL/Super-Friends cartoons. It was sexist in the past, yes. But, nowadays? No. It's a failure of DC/WB to translate all of Diana's excellent qualities to the larger audience. Not to mention it's a failure of DC Comics to actually show Diana was never weak. Under Jenette Khan was she shown to be equal to Superman?

Also this:https://consumerpsycho.wordpress.com...roes-campaign/

I don't buy the weapons argument when Thor, Ichigo, Cloud, Kratos and Dante all use weapons and are still seen as powerful. And most of those guys rely far more on their weapons than Diana.

[Shockingjustice]

What feats of strength does Arthur have? I'd like to know. He controlled the krakan in his movie. Um, he did things in Justice League. I have never seen a panel or discussion about his feats of strength, aside from punching Superman. He doesn't have a comic book far as I know currently. DC Comics treats Wonder Woman far better than Aquaman and he's the one with a billion dollar movie. She's getting the video game before Superman! Yet you keep calling sexism, when it's the opposite. WB/DC is behind Wonder Woman. Not fully behind her, but there's a clear push to get more Wonder Woman in the media.

Also, you should stop downplaying Billy. He was far more iconic than Wonder Woman for years. Captain Marvel Jr. influenced Elvis Presley of all people. Just a few years after DC got the rights to Captain Marvel, he was given a TV show. In the 1980s, he had a cartoon show. Billy Batson was one of the few superheroes that was still on the spin racks back in the 1950s.

Nobody cares about Power Girl if they're not comic book fans. Everyone cares about Supergirl. She's the one with the movies, TV show, and is on merchandise. Kara may be portrayed not as strong as Superman these days, but she's has never been shown as being weak. Why? Because of her connection with Superman.

Superman did have a game, it was just terrible. And didn't Aquaman lift a sub out of water to the surface by himself?

[Perseus]

Exactly. What did you think of my post above? Did you think i hit the right angle?

As long as you're not directly attacking a poster its fine.