Power Level complains

[Perseus]

I don't buy the weapons argument when Thor, Ichigo, Cloud, Kratos and Dante all use weapons and are still seen as powerful. And most of those guys rely far more on their weapons than Diana.

I use to think this back in Nu52 because the weapons were poorly used and over used imo. But now it's clearly not the issue, there is clearly an issue writers and editors have with Diana outside of her tools.

[WonderLight789]

I use to think this back in Nu52 because the weapons were poorly used and over used imo. But now it's clearly not the issue, there is clearly an issue writers and editors have with Diana outside of her tools.

They have a prroblem with her tools as well. Since her gear barely makes a difference in most battles. She looks like she didn't train with a sword in 99% of her appearances. And her skills as the ''greatest'' warrior in DC, are nowhere to be seen. So they don't even put an efffort into the things they constantly praise about her, which is being a great fighter.

[DABellWrites]

DCEU AQ lifted a huge submarine. Post Flashpoint AQ took a continent level attack and has better lifting feats than WW or at least on par. In the justice society movie. He destroyed her underwater. And still overpowered her on land. So

Superman has had many movies and videogames. Even after he had many Bix office disappointments and games that didn't sell well. They still give him more content and always treat his power set with fa more respect than WW. So her getting a solo videogame after existing for 81 years does not mean DC cares much for WW. And let's see how her power and lore are treated there. we will see.

As for shazam. TV show, merchandise, movies? WW has had all that. And on a higher scale than shazam. His solo movie made 366M vs WW 822M. I did not discredit shazam. I pointed out that he also gets more respect for his lore and power set than WW. Yet he is not on WW's level in terms of iconic status. And there are plenty of characters and indutry people that WW has influenced as well. shazam is not even close to be the instantly globally recognizable icon that WW has been for decades.

And WW has been portrayed as weak why? Because of sexism. Because DC and WB can allow a magic, godly powerd boy be equal to Superman such as shazam. But the stronger than Hercules, faster than Mercury, wise as Athena magic, godly powered woman that was created to be superman equal is not allowed to have the same treatment. She has to settle to be super human warrior. Yet she is a far more recognizable icon and comercially successful figure than the boy with the same type of powers and power source as her. And you think sexism has nothing to do with this? Please. It is super easy for anybody, let alone profesional writers and industry people, to do a quick research and know what Diana's powers are and how powerful she is supposed to be. They decide to ignore it because of bias, homofobia and sexism. Her character is too controversial for white straight privileged people. So they have to make her less than the foster boy. Yet their powers are the same. And come from the same source aka Gods. and in Diana's case. She is the one historically made to be stronger and faster than Gods that gave shazam powers. Sure sexism has a lot to do with this. Because from a comercial point of view. she makes more money than him for the label. So there is no reason to make her less based on that. While WW can barely be allowed to be on par with aquaman based on feats these days in the comics. They have been reducing her power level since 2011, way before the sword and shield became standard gear. They go out of her way to make her as generic and weak as possible. They hype her as the greatest warrior, yet her battles in comics and movies since 2011 are underwhelming most of the time, and she is more often than not. Getting her ass beat by brutes that didn't train a day in their lives. ironically, her so called amazing skills as the best warrior in DC are also nowhere to be seen. As in most battles she doesn't look like she trained in combat or in sword fighting a day in her life. But sure. DC is not sexist and they are pushing for more WW contet. She is getting a little more exposure nowadays. In matrerial where she is portrayed badly most of the time and seen as the physically weakest of the team. Not a good look for the feminist girl power icon. Sexism.

When DC first got the rights to Billy and his crew, they immediately paired him off to Superman. There's the JLA cover where Billy was battling Superman. The idea of Captain Marvel being Superman's equal has carried on since then. Yet, for all your complaints about Wonder Woman, at least modern day writers showcase WW battling Superman. What does Martin the Manhunter get? What about other characters in the DCU that's never given a chance to show their stuff?

Also, no. Wonder Woman is not more commercially successful, if we're to gauge based on the outside media. I will say Diana's popularity stems from her association with Superman and Batman. I'd argue she's probably on par with Billy popularity-wise. If she didn't have that role in BvS, would her movie been successful as it was?

I don't buy the weapons argument when Thor, Ichigo, Cloud, Kratos and Dante all use weapons and are still seen as powerful. And most of those guys rely far more on their weapons than Diana.

I don't try to compare DC (and Marvel) characters to other characters, I have before, but I try not to do it. DC (and Marvel) have so much contradictions that you can't really form a valid argument. It's why I ignore any Goku vs Superman argument, they're stupid and makes zero sense. Plus, different stories with different rules (and decades apart). Which is why "death battles" are very dumb to me.

[WonderLight789]

When DC first got the rights to Billy and his crew, they immediately paired him off to Superman. There's the JLA cover where Billy was battling Superman. The idea of Captain Marvel being Superman's equal has carried on since then. Yet, for all your complaints about Wonder Woman, at least modern day writers showcase WW battling Superman. What does Martin the Manhunter get? What about other characters in the DCU that's never given a chance to show their stuff?

Also, no. Wonder Woman is not more commercially successful, if we're to gauge based on the outside media. I will say Diana's popularity stems from her association with Superman and Batman. I'd argue she's probably on par with Billy popularity-wise. If she didn't have that role in BvS, would her movie been successful as it was?



I don't try to compare DC (and Marvel) characters to other characters, I have before, but I try not to do it. DC (and Marvel) have so much contradictions that you can't really form a valid argument. It's why I ignore any Goku vs Superman argument, they're stupid and makes zero sense. Plus, different stories with different rules (and decades apart). Which is why "death battles" are very dumb to me.

Martian Manhunter is usually shown as a more competent and legit Superman tier character than WW. So why did you bring him up is beyond me. So he has far less content. Yet his power set is treated with more respect and consistency than Diana's. While modern comics still show WW battling superman and being completely helpless against him. What a great achievement. Thank you for once again, proving my point that sexists at DC and WB don't really care much about her.

This is not 1950. shazam was literally unknown to the GP globally until 2019, and still is pretty unknmown compared to WW. The first thing people think is Carol Danvers when they hear the words Captain Marvel. Comics are a super small nich, compared the massive reach that movies can have globally. Carol is nowadays a more successful and globally recognized name than shazam. WW was meant to be better than superman. But in the end. Because of sexism she is not even second best.

If you want to credit WW's entire success to Superman and Batman. Then let's do the same for shazam. But sadly for you. It doesn't work like that. Superman has not been a big box office magnet since the 80s. Most of of his moves since then either flopped or came out short from what it was expected. His figure had nothing to do with WW's success. Even the latest batman movie grossed less than WW17. And that was after the pandemic, where movies were able to cross the 800 mark again. bvs was a badly received movie panned by most. WW was the only thing that was received positively, about that whole movie in the eyes of most critics and audiences. Her movie did great because it had positive word of mouth. Giving it legs. That's why although WW17 was a big hit. The JL movie released that same year flopped hard. Because word of mouth was that the movie was terrible. WW is indeed a far more successful figure than shazam. From movies to merchandise, she sells more and is a far more well known figure and name in pop culture worldwide. But go ahead, trying to credit men as the solo reason for a woman's success. Sigh.



The only difference between Goku and Superman. Is that DBZ is far more comercially successful than superman ever was. And Goku's power level is far more consistent than any comic character. Making him the clear winner of the 2. Because he has super high end feats, and far less inconsistent moments than comic characters. It's not Mangas fault, that a lot of comic writers tend to be super lazy when it comes to being consistent.

[WonderLight789]

And since we are at it. DCEU WW's best strength feat without scaling is straining to lift a 30 tons tank over her head. Sigh. Even Lynda carter version could easily stop tanks in their truck with them unable to make her move an inch.

[WonderLight789]

Is anybody happy that mcu spiderman, DCU aquaman and even hawkman are stronger than DCU WW? Our girl sure gets a lot of respect uh? Sigh

[Perseus]

Is anybody happy that mcu spiderman, DCU aquaman and even hawkman are stronger than DCU WW? Our girl sure gets a lot of respect uh? Sigh

The stories are really good though... Scorsese is singing nothing but praise.

[WonderLight789]

The stories are really good though... Scorsese is singing nothing but praise.

Sure the stories are good. Giving Diana her best reputation ever. Sigh

[WonderLight789]

My fav excuse from some WW fans when other fans complain about her poor performances. ''power levels are relative'' oh yeah? Then how come Diana has never defeated superman in any fight from canon continuity? How come other characters do not lose as often as her. And never forget about certain powers they have, as often as it happens to WW? Most writers literally approach her powers as optional. How often does this happen to other characters?.

[WonderLight789]

mary marvel, aquaman, superman, lobo, etrigan, orion, darkseid, doomsday, black adam, martian manhunter, aquaman, jon kent, etc. The list of characters stronger than WW these days has become huge. But hey. The stories can only be good if she is weaker so. Sigh

[CaptainUniverse]

mary marvel, aquaman, superman, lobo, etrigan, orion, darkseid, doomsday, black adam, martian manhunter, aquaman, jon kent, etc. The list of characters stronger than WW these days has become huge. But hey. The stories can only be good if she is weaker so. Sigh

At least she doesn't have that stupid weakness where if you tied her up she would lose all of her powers anymore.

[marhawkman]

At least she doesn't have that stupid weakness where if you tied her up she would lose all of her powers anymore.

Wasn't that just trying her hands together? Not tied up in general?

[Phoenixx9]

Wasn't that just trying her hands together? Not tied up in general?

Chaining her Bracelets of Submission, actually. This could also/was also done by welding them together.

[CaptainUniverse]

Chaining her Bracelets of Submission, actually. This could also/was also done by welding them together.

They were called the Bracelets of Submission...that's so...typical of her original creators.

[WonderLight789]

At least she doesn't have that stupid weakness where if you tied her up she would lose all of her powers anymore.

She is super weak today, so giving her a weakness on top of that would be silly. But DC can always surpass themselves regarding their crummy treatment of WW. So never say never.