Yet another Crisis event?

[sifighter]

This may be of some help, so Williamson had an interview at Comicpop and besides talking about Birthright, Flash, and Robin he brought up Infinite Frontier and how he described it was that it’s not an event as we have seen it before, it’s more a slow mystery while also going into characters opinions and motives after surviving multiple reality rewriting events, however the big thing is that it will also serve as setup for an actual big event as we know it next year.

He talks about Darkseid setting up plots, Bones being “hey this is weird all that’s happened right”, Chase investigating the Justice League a little, and Barry Allen dealing with weird Multiverse stuff. Kind of like exploring the dc universe after a big event like death metal has happened.

[MajorHoy]

Darkseid seemed a bit mad:

[Dataweaver]

Jumping on the negativity bandwagon for a moment: first, Final Crisis featured as its most prominent villain… Darkseid! Then he was killed. Then, Flashpoint happened and the Justice League's big bad was… Darkseid! Then he was killed. Now, in Infinite Frontier, is been revealed that the big bad for the next stage of the DCU is… Darkseid!

…yeah, I'm getting tired of him.

[Dataweaver]

I think the issue is more that it's constantly a thing for DC. If they just picked a stance on it and stuck with that I'm sure it wouldn't be so much of an issue. But this constant need to have big events and to address the state of the continuity is exhausting.

They tried that, with the New 52. It turns out that it's not enough to just pick a stance and stick to it; the stance you pick also matters.

[Harpsikord]

Darkseid seemed a bit mad:

Just sort of realizing that this has practically been ignored... mainly because Hera is completely fine over in the Wonder books.

[Dataweaver]

I never heard that ^^

They wanted to use Anti-Crisis Energy to defeat Perpetua and portray the Crisis as negative things that power Perpetua, and that the continuity is unknotted so the universe will appreciate all stories instead of rebooting all the time but as far as I remember (and I tend to be 50:50 wrong) they never said they're never not gonna do a Crisis again

Anyway that wasn't the impression I get from those stories. Just that Everything Matters Now.

On a different note

"to explain in part how heroes who debuted long ago remained active for so long."

STOP
TRYING
TO EXPLAIN THINGS

The more you explain the more question everyone's gonna ask!

Like how far an explanation can go when you already have
Hypertime - the infinity of branching timelines
Omniverse - the infinity of alternate universe
All working at the same time

Also remain active for how long? The impression I get from that quote is they're trying to explain Linearverse - the hero from golden age is the same one as today - that's Jurgen's personal playground, are you actually making it the main Earth timeline?

As I recall, the bit about explaining how the likes of the JSA are still around was part of the aborted 5G plan: supposedly, in the new timeline that they were hashing out, the “now” for the DCU was being regressed to the 1980s — except that they'd still look like the modern world due to super-geniuses speeding up Earth's technological progression.

But again, that was part of the aborted 5G plan. What we now have is Wonder Woman's “One Story” notion, an embrace of “it all happened!” that states that Johns' Metaverse is a thing and that everyone is fully aware of it now.

The sense I'm getting here is that DC is done with trying to establish a single, consistent timeline; they're embracing the full, often contradictory history from Superman's debut in 1938 to the present day; and the 2023 Crisis is going to be less about “fixing the continuity” and more about a cosmic confrontation between the Elseworld and Earth Omega, with the rest of the Multiverse caught in the middle.

[CaptCleghorn]

As I recall, the bit about explaining how the likes of the JSA are still around was part of the aborted 5G plan: supposedly, in the new timeline that they were hashing out, the “now” for the DCU was being regressed to the 1980s — except that they'd still look like the modern world due to super-geniuses speeding up Earth's technological progression.

But again, that was part of the aborted 5G plan. What we now have is Wonder Woman's “One Story” notion, an embrace of “it all happened!” that states that Johns' Metaverse is a thing and that everyone is fully aware of it now.

The sense I'm getting here is that DC is done with trying to establish a single, consistent timeline; they're embracing the full, often contradictory history from Superman's debut in 1938 to the present day; and the 2023 Crisis is going to be less about “fixing the continuity” and more about a cosmic confrontation between the Elseworld and Earth Omega, with the rest of the Multiverse caught in the middle.

I'm almost pusihng for DC to abandone continuity altogether and maintain their IPs like mythical figures like Sherlock Holmes where the concept is adapted many times and ways over. Superman was flown to Earth when Krypton exploded. The Kents raised him. He met and wooed Lois. They married and had Jon. The details vary wildly and when a new writer comes on they use the Superman they want to at the age they wish. What stands in the way of this is DCs love of a universal story where all the piece fit and are necessary to tell the story and individual pieces are not expected to live without being firmly entrenched in what's happening now.

[CaptCleghorn]

They tried that, with the New 52. It turns out that it's not enough to just pick a stance and stick to it; the stance you pick also matters.

Damn, good observation which makes me think more about my attitude with "just pick a damn continuity already".

[superduperman]

I kind of wonder if we haven't reached the point where it's actually more effecient to just embrace the Archies model where you have a very loose set of rules but not real continuity. Think of it like the Simpsons. There's a status quo that has to be maintained. But I doubt hardcore fans would go for that.

[superduperman]

They tried that, with the New 52. It turns out that it's not enough to just pick a stance and stick to it; the stance you pick also matters.

To be fair, New 52 had a lot of stupid rules that served no purpose other than to let Dan Didio relive his childhood. It started out fairly strong. But the restrictions on things like marriage and him trying to off all the sidekicks really hampered what could have been a good idea. I still stand by the idea that what DC needs is a hard reboot. But selling it to the fans and making sure that you don't adopt this idea that "we can sell them on whatever we want them to like" attitude is key. You can't make people hate Wally or Dick no matter how much you may wish you could.

[Eskana]

We can just call the next one "A Series of Indefinite Crises of Indeterminate Length" (or "Indefinite Crisis" for short)
It can be an ongoing title that just gets added to a couple times a year and fluxes continuity.

[Dataweaver]

I'm almost pusihng for DC to abandone continuity altogether and maintain their IPs like mythical figures like Sherlock Holmes where the concept is adapted many times and ways over. Superman was flown to Earth when Krypton exploded. The Kents raised him. He met and wooed Lois. They married and had Jon. The details vary wildly and when a new writer comes on they use the Superman they want to at the age they wish. What stands in the way of this is DCs love of a universal story where all the piece fit and are necessary to tell the story and individual pieces are not expected to live without being firmly entrenched in what's happening now.

I kind of wonder if we haven't reached the point where it's actually more effecient to just embrace the Archies model where you have a very loose set of rules but not real continuity. Think of it like the Simpsons. There's a status quo that has to be maintained. But I doubt hardcore fans would go for that.

I think this is basically what they're trying to do now. Just tell good stories, and don't worry too much about continuity.

That said, stories can be killed by excessive devotion to a status quo; so I wouldn't go quite as far as the “Archie's model”, if I'm understanding you correctly. But yeah; go with something iconic, where you've got a rough outline of what the “story so far” has been but without excessive scrutiny of every little detail, and where new stories can build on that.

If that's what they end up doing, I can live with that — though I'll miss the likes of Jack Knight's seven-year run and the mythology that James Robinson built around him.

Or not; if we get another James Robinson, someone steeped in the history of comics who knows how to weave disparate elements from all over DC's long history into a compelling and cohesive narrative, let him or her run wild; but other than that, don't worry about it.

[Vordan]

Just sort of realizing that this has practically been ignored... mainly because Hera is completely fine over in the Wonder books.

Williamson said there’s going to be stuff that in books that contradicts IF, and that’s deliberate. My guess is Hera has been revived by Darkseid as a sleeper agent after her death. Williamson is the one guiding the line towards the event that’s coming, so I don’t think his stuff is being ignored.

[manduck37]

If it got rid of everything that's happened to Superman since like...forever, I'd take a big uninspired Crisis as the price to pay.

Agreed. I'd gladly take another lousy Crisis to get Superman reset.

[jaygon]

As I recall, the bit about explaining how the likes of the JSA are still around was part of the aborted 5G plan: supposedly, in the new timeline that they were hashing out, the “now” for the DCU was being regressed to the 1980s — except that they'd still look like the modern world due to super-geniuses speeding up Earth's technological progression.

But again, that was part of the aborted 5G plan. What we now have is Wonder Woman's “One Story” notion, an embrace of “it all happened!” that states that Johns' Metaverse is a thing and that everyone is fully aware of it now.

The sense I'm getting here is that DC is done with trying to establish a single, consistent timeline; they're embracing the full, often contradictory history from Superman's debut in 1938 to the present day; and the 2023 Crisis is going to be less about “fixing the continuity” and more about a cosmic confrontation between the Elseworld and Earth Omega, with the rest of the Multiverse caught in the middle.

Was it Diana’s action in DM 6, which restored the memories of past continuities or the actions of The Hands in DM 7?

Is the Orrery of Worlds (52) intact and at the centre of the DC Omniverse?