Yet another Crisis event?

[Dataweaver]

It was Diana's actions in DM number 6. And yes, there is still an Orrery of Worlds; but it has been restructured: first, the other world no longer hang off of Earth zero; second, the Orrery now has two poles: the Elseworld and Earth Omega. And unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds; there is likely no upper limit to the number of worlds that it can support. Whether it's at the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center.

[MajorHoy]

It was Diana's actions in DM number 6. And yes, there is still an Orrery of Worlds; but it has been restructured: first, the other world no longer hang off of Earth zero; second, the Orrery now has two poles: the Elseworld and Earth Omega. And unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds; there is likely no upper limit to the number of worlds that it can support. Whether it's at the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center.

It was so much easier to understand with just a bunch of unlimited multiple Earths back in the Pre-CoIE days . . .

[Raz]

it was so much easier to understand with just a bunch of unlimited multiple earths back in the pre-coie days . . .

for real!!

[Dataweaver]

Eh; that's what we have now: a bunch of unlimited multiple Earths.

[Restingvoice]

Yes we did get infinite Earths back. The problem is they still trying to make only one Earth relevant and therefore feel the necessity to explain how this one Earth contain everything you ever love that happened

It was Diana's actions in DM number 6. And yes, there is still an Orrery of Worlds; but it has been restructured: first, the other world no longer hang off of Earth zero; second, the Orrery now has two poles: the Elseworld and Earth Omega. And unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds; there is likely no upper limit to the number of worlds that it can support. Whether it's at the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center.

Someone needs to make a new map. Morrison's map is so beautifully visualized and easy to understand I automatically forget about Earth Alpha and Omega. I know there are no Source Wall to contain 52 Earths, that's fine, just include the Earths they most often use and then add a note "other Earths to infinity of possiblities" at the border

Let's see that would be Earth-0, Earth-1, Earth-3... Do we even have Earth-2 at the moment?

[Dataweaver]

Yes we did get infinite Earths back. The problem is they still trying to make only one Earth relevant and therefore feel the necessity to explain how this one Earth contain everything you ever love that happened

No, they're not. Earth-0 is no longer the center of the Multiverse; it's no longer any more important than any other Earth. It just happens to be the Earth that's getting the bulk of the focus. And in that regard, it's no different than the pre-Crisis Earth One.

Someone needs to make a new map. Morrison's map is so beautifully visualized and easy to understand I automatically forget about Earth Alpha and Omega. I know there are no Source Wall to contain 52 Earths, that's fine, just include the Earths they most often use and then add a note "other Earths to infinity of possiblities" at the border

Let's see that would be Earth-0, Earth-1, Earth-3... Do we even have Earth-2 at the moment?

Morrison's map is still mostly valid, as is his Guide to the Multiverse; it's just not a complete map anymore; and all of the Earths that had been destroyed have been reborn. Thus, the new Crime Syndicate series set in an Earth-3 that's similar to, but not the same as, the earlier versions of Earth-3.

We'll know what's changed, and what's been added, when and if it becomes important to detail it; if and when we revisit Earth 2, we'll learn what it's like then; until then, does it matter?

And the whole point of removing the cap on how many Earths there can be is that the Multiverse is too vast to map: the new Earths coming into existence in the expanding Orrery almost certainly outnumber the original 52 worlds; and they're likely coming into existence faster than they can be found. So they might as well be infinite.

[MajorHoy]

Eh; that's what we have now: a bunch of unlimited multiple Earths.

But we didn't have all this additional baggage:

. . . there is still an Orrery of Worlds; but it has been restructured: first, the other world no longer hang off of Earth zero; second, the Orrery now has two poles: the Elseworld and Earth Omega. And unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds; there is likely no upper limit to the number of worlds that it can support. Whether it's at the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center.

[Dataweaver]

It's not baggage. Frankly, all that that boils down to is that “The Elseworld and Earth Omega are going to be playing a significant role in the upcoming story that Infinite Frontier is setting up”. Other than that, it has no impact on anything.

In particular:
• “the Orrery of Worlds no longer hangs off of Earth zero”. That's the opposite of baggage; it's a declaration that some previous bit of baggage (that Earth zero is all-important, to the point that changing it changes everything else) is now gone.
• “unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds”. Again, this is the removal of former baggage; it is not, itself, baggage.
• “whether or not the Orrery of Worlds is in the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center”. Again, not baggage; just a general observation. We don't know if the Omniverse has a center, so we don't know if the Orrery of Worlds is in its center. And more importantly, it doesn't matter.
• The only thing that could remotely be considered “baggage” in that quote is that that the Elseworld and Earth Omega are poles for the Orrery. And as I said above, that's basically just a way of saying “these two worlds are going to matter in the next Crisis event”.

[blunt_eastwood]

They tried that, with the New 52. It turns out that it's not enough to just pick a stance and stick to it; the stance you pick also matters.

I'm not sure what you mean because they didn't. They didn't reboot Batman or Green Lantern when it started, the timeline was consistently changed and contradicted, and then it was essentially reversed a few years later with Convergence and then Rebirth.

[Sacred Knight]

I'd have to agree. New 52 is not really a good example of picking a stance. It was majorly cherry picked from the word go and never really stopped until its end. That's what killed it, essentially.

[Stanlos]

I'd have to agree. New 52 is not really a good example of picking a stance. It was majorly cherry picked from the word go and never really stopped until its end. That's what killed it, essentially.

That still puzzles me about the entire affair. Did they really poop the bed just to retell the same stories but without the impact?

[HsssH]

What same stories?

[Buried Alien]

No, they're not. Earth-0 is no longer the center of the Multiverse; it's no longer any more important than any other Earth. It just happens to be the Earth that's getting the bulk of the focus. And in that regard, it's no different than the pre-Crisis Earth One.

Morrison's map is still mostly valid, as is his Guide to the Multiverse; it's just not a complete map anymore; and all of the Earths that had been destroyed have been reborn. Thus, the new Crime Syndicate series set in an Earth-3 that's similar to, but not the same as, the earlier versions of Earth-3.

We'll know what's changed, and what's been added, when and if it becomes important to detail it; if and when we revisit Earth 2, we'll learn what it's like then; until then, does it matter?

And the whole point of removing the cap on how many Earths there can be is that the Multiverse is too vast to map: the new Earths coming into existence in the expanding Orrery almost certainly outnumber the original 52 worlds; and they're likely coming into existence faster than they can be found. So they might as well be infinite.

I do like these ideas: looks like we CAN have our cake and eat it too.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[jaygon]

It was Diana's actions in DM number 6. And yes, there is still an Orrery of Worlds; but it has been restructured: first, the other world no longer hang off of Earth zero; second, the Orrery now has two poles: the Elseworld and Earth Omega. And unlike the original structure, this new structure isn't limited to 52 worlds; there is likely no upper limit to the number of worlds that it can support. Whether it's at the center of the Omniverse depends on whether or not the Omniverse has a center.

If we accept that the wider Omniverse is ‘functionally a collection of Multiverses, and DC's new version knocks down all the walls between them, creating an ever-expanding web of new, interconnected realities, ever expanding in the sense that new universes are being created all the time’ ; Are we to take it that (at least part of) this wider Omniverse previously existed outside the orrery?

Im pretty sure that in the post-Flashpoint/Convergence/Rebirth/Doomsday Clock continuity a wider Omniverse did exist. Multiversity alludes to other multiverses outside of the orrery. Convergence restores the infinite multiverse, albeit, again, seemingly outside of and cut off from the orrery. The archived worlds of the DC Metaverse establishes a similar idea.

Is the unique aspect of the Infinite Frontier Omniverse that with the boundaries removed, the orrery no longer exists as a structure and has become part of the wider web which has existed outside of it since at least the time of Convergence?

My previous post pondered if Dianas action in DM 6, which restored the memories (of those heroes on Earth 0) of past continuity was itself overwritten as reality was reshaped in DM 7. Meaning Diana’s action was wiped when Earth 0 was returned to its state of existence prior to the events of Death Metal but the action of The Hands in DM 7 and the breaking of those boundaries between realities similarly restore those memories of past lives/continuities, making what happened in DM 6 defunct.

[Dataweaver]

If we accept that the wider Omniverse is ‘functionally a collection of Multiverses, and DC's new version knocks down all the walls between them, creating an ever-expanding web of new, interconnected realities, ever expanding in the sense that new universes are being created all the time’ ; Are we to take it that (at least part of) this wider Omniverse previously existed outside the orrery?

I'm pretty sure that in the post-Flashpoint/Convergence/Rebirth/Doomsday Clock continuity a wider Omniverse did exist. Multiversity alludes to other multiverses outside of the orrery. Convergence restores the infinite multiverse, albeit, again, seemingly outside of and cut off from the orrery. The archived worlds of the DC Metaverse establishes a similar idea.

Nitpick: what Convergence did was to save the original Multiverse from destruction and to tie (a select few of) those worlds into the pasts of the worlds of the Orrery, establishing each of them as being not unlike the primary Earth's status as a Metaverse.

Is the unique aspect of the Infinite Frontier Omniverse that with the boundaries removed, the orrery no longer exists as a structure and has become part of the wider web which has existed outside of it since at least the time of Convergence?

It's not so much that the Orrery no longer exists as a structure; is that that structure is no longer isolated. That is, the latter part of your statement is absolutely true; it has become part of a larger web. But that hasn't caused it to cease to exist as a structure. Indeed, the talk about there being “whole Multiverses” in the Omniverse implies that the Orrery of Worlds isn't the only such structure within the Multiverse: other Multiverses have their own structures, which may or may not be like the Orrery. I personally like to think that the Wild Storm universe exists in another such Multiverse; except that instead of being an Orrery of 52 worlds, it's a Snowflake built around a Monster Group of 808,017,424,794,512,875,886,459,904,961,710,757,00 5,754,368,000,000,000 worlds. Just to give one example of another structure that exists within the Omniverse.

My previous post pondered if Dianas action in DM 6, which restored the memories (of those heroes on Earth 0) of past continuity was itself overwritten as reality was reshaped in DM 7. Meaning Diana’s action was wiped when Earth 0 was returned to its state of existence prior to the events of Death Metal but the action of The Hands in DM 7 and the breaking of those boundaries between realities similarly restore those memories of past lives/continuities, making what happened in DM 6 defunct.

The way I read it, it isn't that DM#6 was rendered defunct; it's that Diana's actions in DM#6 started a process that the Hands' actions in DM#7 built upon. Diana tore down the barriers between the different iterations of the Metaverse of Earth-0; the Hands cemented that change, and expanded on it to provide unfettered access to the Omniverse.