DC's and Marvel's problems

[DrNewGod]

I had a feeling that was going to happen to her eventually because they really didn't focus on giving her a rogue's gallery, and her supporting cast outside of other supers is minimal. A supporting cast is what separates an interesting character from a franchise. This is a problem with a lot of new characters.

Yes, but it's complicated. The original Ms. Marvel, Nova, Firestorm, and the post-Crisis Captain Atom were given all that you describe, including dedicated rogue galleries, and rich personal casts, and couldn't make a go of it.

[Zauriel]

Price is an issue, but you waste $5 at McDonald’s too, or Starbucks for you bourgeois, lasts about as long as the read, and anybody who feels intimidated by #765 of a particular book instead of a new #1 is a dope. Any book can be someone’s first. Avengers 151 was one of my first. Liked it enough to track down issues on both sides of the number. I wasn’t worried about how Cap and the crew got there, it was the hunt to find out how that was fun, and encouraged me to keep on, and buy the next issue, and so on. Pretty simple. Then it was Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne, The Hulk, X-Men #128 was a cool cover, (Wolverine in the sewers if I remember right,). It speaks more to the lack of attention span and a lack of creativity these days.

a Manga volume (also called as tankoubon) is twice or 2.5 times the price of a US comic book but it usually has about 200 pages, 8 times more pages than a US comic book.

[Aahz]

Price is an issue, but you waste $5 at McDonald’s too, or Starbucks for you bourgeois, lasts about as long as the read, and anybody who feels intimidated by #765 of a particular book instead of a new #1 is a dope. Any book can be someone’s first. Avengers 151 was one of my first. Liked it enough to track down issues on both sides of the number. I wasn’t worried about how Cap and the crew got there, it was the hunt to find out how that was fun, and encouraged me to keep on, and buy the next issue, and so on. Pretty simple. Then it was Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne, The Hulk, X-Men #128 was a cool cover, (Wolverine in the sewers if I remember right,). It speaks more to the lack of attention span and a lack of creativity these days.

Problem is that if you would today pick up a random issue of a comic, you would be very likely end up with an issue some where in the middle of a boring decompressed 6 issue story arc.

[Username taken]

Yes, but it's complicated. The original Ms. Marvel, Nova, Firestorm, and the post-Crisis Captain Atom were given all that you describe, including dedicated rogue galleries, and rich personal casts, and couldn't make a go of it.

The original Firestorm was quite successful and his book for over 100 hundred issues back in the day. For a new character, that was no small feat.

But I believe a lot of his sales were from outside the direct market (although available sales data from that era is hard to find).

[GOLGO 13]

I dunno beside declining comic sales?

Black Superman will be quite a thing, I'm sure. Strangely though I hear Henry Cavill has stopped following DC & WB on social media, say what? Huh, I'm positive those things are totally NOT related.

Batwoman tv ratings are a smashing success & making it wildly popular with fans & critics, right? Not a problem.

Anyone hear about Margot Robbie's Birds of Prey getting a sequel?

Captain Marvel 2 is now called, "The Marvels"? But didn't Captain Marvel make over a billion dollars? Seems strange to just abandon the "Captain Marvel" brand just like that? Seems weird. Anybody remember what Marvel's statement about the name change was? I must have missed it.

[Alan2099]

Problem is that if you would today pick up a random issue of a comic, you would be very likely end up with an issue some where in the middle of a boring decompressed 6 issue story arc.

And with everybody calling each other by their first names, you don't even know who half the characters are.

[DrNewGod]

The original Firestorm was quite successful and his book for over 100 hundred issues back in the day. For a new character, that was no small feat.

But I believe a lot of his sales were from outside the direct market (although available sales data from that era is hard to find).

Yes-ish.

Firestorm's original series, Firestorm: The Nuclear Man, only lasted five issues before getting caught up in the DC Implosion of the late 1970s, and he was trundled off to the JLA, along with out about a dozen backup appearances in The Flash. His 1980s series, The Fury of Firestorm, did indeed last over 100 issues. The character has never been able to hold up a title for very long since.

[Mister Mets]

Problem is that if you would today pick up a random issue of a comic, you would be very likely end up with an issue some where in the middle of a boring decompressed 6 issue story arc.

There is an understanding now that serialized fiction works best if you start in the beginning. Better Call Saul, Succession, Billions, Barry and Marvelous Mrs. Maisel are not very accessible if you start with a random episode.

Comics are in a similar place. It's easier than ever to read earlier chapters, and it does create a different reading experience. A downside is that it's harder for someone to get started.

[DrNewGod]

There is an understanding now that serialized fiction works best if you start in the beginning. Better Call Saul, Succession, Billions, Barry and Marvelous Mrs. Maisel are not very accessible if you start with a random episode.

Comics are in a similar place. It's easier than ever to read earlier chapters, and it does create a different reading experience. A downside is that it's harder for someone to get started.

There's a bit of a wrong turn in that need to start with the beginning that both of the Big Two made starting in the 1980s (it seems to me). Up to that point, there'd been some editorial paradigms that every issue might be somebody's first. Hasn't been that way in a looooong time.

[TheRay]

4. Being out of school so long, are the kids even able to read the comics?

They can still just like the pictures.

[Mister Mets]

There's a bit of a wrong turn in that need to start with the beginning that both of the Big Two made starting in the 1980s (it seems to me). Up to that point, there'd been some editorial paradigms that every issue might be somebody's first. Hasn't been that way in a looooong time.

Is it necessary in the current market where most trade paperbacks are readily available, and every recent issue of note is available digitally?

There is a tradeoff if they regularly adopted the idea that issues may be someone's first, in terms of limiting the ability to tell complex stories.

[Jely4me]

Problem is that if you would today pick up a random issue of a comic, you would be very likely end up with an issue some where in the middle of a boring decompressed 6 issue story arc.

That speaks more to the business model that the Big Two have come to rely heavily on, that’s not what they were concerned with in 1979...

[TheRay]

For the last 30+ years comics have only been available at destination stores that only bring existing customers in so there is little to no chance for new customers to discover them.

Both of them launching cinematic universes should alleviate this.

[green_garnish]

Both of them launching cinematic universes should alleviate this.

You would think, but there's no evidence that has happened, or is likely to.

[MRP]

Both of them launching cinematic universes should alleviate this.

They've been waiting for 21 years (the X-Men movie was released in 2000) for fans of the movies to show up in the comics shops, and it hasn't happened yet. The strategy of "if you build it, they will come" has been the shining hope of Marvel and DC since the movies first started coming out, and what's happened to sales in those 20 years...they've declined. Putting asses in seats in movie theatres does not translate to traffic coming in to comic shops and buying single issues or trades. Fans of the movies are fans of the characters and stories in the movies (or on television), it doesn't mean they want to read about those characters or those stories. Movie customers do not become comic customers unless they are already inclined to be readers and customers of reading material. IF they are hoping for that to happen, 21 years of it not happening has shown that to be a vain hope.


-M