So an Imperial-class Star Destroyer (Star Wars) crash lands on Earth..........

[Totoro Man]

Those are low showings and PIS. Their sensors were able to instantaneously scan an escape pod launched from an enemy ship and determine that there were no life forms aboard. Based on that, you think they cannot see bridges across a river? They can't figure out which buildings are homes, which are power plants, and which are factories? We have radar that can detect aircraft, but people in a dogfight a) still have a see through cockpit, b) still visually acquire targets, and c) can still be surprised by enemy planes when they are focused on the one they are trying to shoot down. Vader also has the force and that didn't tip him off to Han Solo either, does that mean Jedi can't block blaster fire with their lightsabers since clearly the force didn't give Vader any warning about the Falcon swooping in? If the Empire just swooped down in a shuttle and grabbed C3PO and R2D2 before the jawas picked them up, there would be no movie.

LOL. I actually don't need to answer any of these rhetorical off-topic questions. they have no relevance to the arguments that I've been making against Imperial forces in this scenario. it's not a count against modern aircraft that they still have bubble canopies. nobody has argued that modern fighters have super-sensors that allow them to find, identify, and differentiate between thousands of alien objects and organisms beyond visual range. no, people understand that real-world limitations are applicable in the real-world easily enough. the through-line argument in favor of Imperial forces in this thread has been that the Empire is not limited by any real-world concerns or limitations at all.

with that out of the way: I'm glad that you appreciate the possibility that TIE fighters can be ambushed and shot down easily by WW2 aircraft while they are conducting low-speed, low-level ground attack missions.

this also means that those 8 shuttles and 12 TIE bombers are at a high risk of getting shot down too. remember, the declared flight speed of these aircraft inside of atmospheric conditions is about 528 mph. that's 40 mph slower than the Me-262's best speed in level flight. (it can dive even fater). most high-end fighters could actually catch these shuttles at the end of a medium length dive. moreover, the shuttles have to bleed off a considerable amount of speed when they turn. so, they won't always be able to fly at their top speed during combat operations.

which lease me to another point. the shuttles have deflector shields... but the TIE bombers do not. if TIE fighters can be shot down by WW2 aircraft, as you have implicitly admitted too... then the bombers, which are even slower and bigger targets, get taken out as well.

if a Me-262 is starting from an altitude of 10,000 feet it would be VERY EASY for them to simply point their nose down and start a diving attack on this shuttle as it mills about blowing up targets on the ground.

since shields have no feats for protecting against mid-air collisions against objects of significant size.... that means that pretty much any high-end fighter with a pilot prepared to throw his life away to destroy a shuttle can take it out by a few basic methods. ramming it. flipping it off course. or pushing it into the ground. wing tipping and pushing techniques were used to force V1 rockets off targets. the same can be done to shuttles. I shouldn't have to explain the value of ramming attacks. it's a case of losing one aircraft in exchange for another. in this scenario the loss of even one shuttle is catastrophic for the Imperial forces stranded on planet earth.

speaking of low end showings... did you know what the most efficient and safest means for a fighter that enjoys superior speed, sustained turn rate, and climbing ability to shoot down a completely inferior aircraft is? it's called "slow down to just slightly above the speed of your adversary and follow them". this is a pretty basic and unavoidable law of aerial combat. if you don't believe me you can always look at Robert L. Shaw's classic volume "Fighter Combat" by Naval Institute Press. he specifically deals with this on pages 182 to 185. in this scenario TIE fighters can either be faster OR more maneuverable... but they can't do both at the same time in combat conditions. if they want to quickly shoot down an enemy aircraft they are going to have to slow down to the speed of their target and get behind them. this automatically puts them in grave danger of being attacked in turn.

one thing needs to be pointed out. 1944 was arguably the high-water mark for the skills of combat pilots in world history. at this stage we had thousands of pilots who had achieved ace status. Adolf Glunz, a member of JG26, managed to shoot down three superior aircraft inside of two minutes. he simply stumbled upon a formation as he came out of a cloud, found himself behind an enemy formation and reacted. he was probably able to do this because he wasn't using tracer ammunition. those neon green blaster bolts are actually a bit of a weakness in aerial combat. a lot of experienced pilots actually preferred to NOT have tracer ammunition included because it would give away their attacks.

[Totoro Man]

Just popping in to say after many pages writing about scenarios that will never take place and disregarding every Imperial advantage and severely understanding or outright misunderstanding everything about the Star Wars capabilities/abilities/vehicles there is still nothing put forward that would cause the Imperials to lose this scenario.

It's been clear stated how and why they win, and countering their obvious and insurmountable advantages with scenarios and limitations that they dont have and never will occur doesn't change anything.

The Allies still can't stop any Aerial Craft from going to space, scanning all their targets, then dropping down anywhere in the world at anytime day or night and taking them out(starting with any Artillery or defenses which is basic warfare). Their weaponry from TIEs to Lambada cannons will absolutely destroy any/everything WW2 Earth has built easily.

The Allies still cant force the Imperials to do ANYTHING. Not on Day 1, not on Day 10, not on Day 100. The Allies simply cannot force them into a single battle or battlefield of their choosing. The only thing the Allies can do is try to attack the Star Destroyer and fail Hard. Every single bate/engagement happens when the where the Imperials choose to.

Before claiming victory talking about supply lines, moving thousands of Stormtroopers for NO reason and what not, just prove how you can stop them from doing what has been stated sin e the beginning of the thread, aka the Imperials dropping from space after scanning their targets and taking out all their targets before a counter attack can even begin. 1 Lambada and 10 TIEs attacking simultaneously 8 targets across the globe in Allied countries with Impunity and leaving without losing a single vehicle. Happening multiple times a day, every day, and the allies have nothing they can do about it since they dont have radar/scanners to track when and where the Imperials are at anytime.

the OP never stated that the Star Destroyer was given the luxury of scanning the entire planet, assembling detailed maps, and identifying primary target areas. now, if they want to change the scenario and grant that this information is available based on star charts and planetary records given out ahead of time... well, that's different.

we can't assume that the Star Destroyer has complete knowledge of the planet earth and all of their potential enemies simply to make it easier for them to win.

if their technological advantage is as truly great as you claim, then they would need to be denied this basic information to prevent it from being a 'curbstomp' (which is frowned upon in this forum). thus, one of the things that enables this to be a more interesting rumble is that they would have to gather that information themselves. besides, if their aircraft are as untouchable as you say... then they are at no risk of sending out untouchable recon flights across the planets.

I have already argued that Imperial forces reflect light. they are visible to the human eye. their top speed inside of earth atmosphere has been established at about 770 mph for TIE fighters and 528 mph for shuttles and TIE bombers. this is NOT beyond the abilities of WW2 to keep track of even without the use of radar.

I do not disregard the very real advantages the Empire has in the form of unlimited ammunition, the ability to escape the atmosphere, and the power of turbolasers. I also specifically mentioned that one of the biggest advantages the Empire has is that every soldier appears to have access to a two-way radio communicator of some sort. these are tremendous advantages. if there had been a larger Imperial force at work - these advantages would prove decisive. if there had been ten Imperial Star destroyers settled together in a star shaped formation, and had 97,000 Stormtroopers and 1,440 aircraft I would be prepared to argue in their favor. they would have the necessary resources to compel a short-term victory and force their adversaries to negotiate. they can't do this with their limited resources as stipulated by the OP.

if this had been taking place in Khazan Arena with one fully operational Star Destroyer facing an entire Carrier Group in the Pacific instead of one vessel stranded in Northern France in 1944 I would be prepared to argue in favor of the Imperial forces. but that's not what we have here.

battles may be won with tactics, weapons, and courage... but actual wars are won by strategy and logistics. you can't use the methodology of winning a single battle over-and-over again to justify how you are going to win an entire war.

[Totoro Man]

now, if this ship had crashed in Ecuador while Peru was invading in 1941 during the Zarumilla War... they could have made a real difference.

granted, they would have had a pretty rough time of it. but I think they could win against Peruvian forces in 1941. this is not an insult against Peru, by the way; Peru had one of the most modern and professional militaries in South America this side of Brazil. but Brazil is just too damned big for one Star Destroyer to conquer.

Peru would be pushing them to the limit... but if they cooperated with the Ecuadorian army, that scenario would still give the Star Destroyer an interesting challenge and something that was theoretically possible for them to conquer. it would be so densely covered in jungles and rivers that the Imperials would enjoy a brief period of numerical superiority at specific locations. sure, the longer the war dragged out they would be hard-pressed to deal with Peru's 60,000+ troops... but they would still enjoy numerical and qualitative superiority in aircraft. since Peru didn't have a lot of trucks, the Imperial ground transports would give them a pretty good means of moving troops quickly. Ecuador would be more than happy to keep the Imperial troops provisioned if that was what they needed to drive back the Peruvian artillery, aircraft, tanks, and infantry back into the jungle.

since the conflict historically ended with the United States demanding that Peru cease hostilities - the Empire could actually end up looking like the good guys and winning the support of multiple nations while fighting for an 'underdog'.

[Captain Smith]

If the SW staff had brains - given the Peru analysis, their best bet is to sell out to the USA, become millionaires and head for the beach. Their tech could monitor the media of the time and see what country would be best to live in as compared to conquer. Conquering the world from South America would be interesting. Now how long would it take to walk out of the terrain of Ecuador, Brazil or Peru to get anywhere worth really ruling? Like to see the Walkers take a running leap over the Panama Canal.

Roosevelt would cut them such a sweet deal. It would be fun to dismount the ship's fixed weaponry and install it on USN ships.

[Twickster]

1 Lambada and 10 TIEs attacking simultaneously 8 targets across the globe in Allied countries with Impunity and leaving without losing a single vehicle...

Will do absolutely nothing of statistical importance to the WWII war machine, given that countries have been firebombed to oblivion with impunity with firepower that dwarfs this force. There are simply too few of them. And we have established that they are, in fact, not invulnerable, so they will be suffering from losses, each one being irreparable and irreplaceable.

[Twickster]

And to make the point of the capability of TIE fighters: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE...ty_starfighter

So, no shields, they can be shot just fine. Maximum speed in atmosphere: 1,200 kph.

Maximum speeds of WWII fighters: 400-700 kph depending on the model. So only around two to three times slower in atmosphere. They fire physical shells, with rates of fire much faster than turbolaser fire. They outnumber the TIES hundreds to one.

Each single TIE *cannot* afford to be damaged, and any damage *cannot* be repaired. Every single loss is a statistically significant fraction of the total fighting force.

Add in AA batteries and bombproof shelters standard in WWII.

And oh, any attempt at "controlling" the theater is obviated by the fact that the return point of the TIES is grounded and a known entity. The Allies and Axis could simply surround the Star Destroyer beyond the 30km firing distance and shoot anything that comes out or returns.

So yes, the Imperials just huddle inside the Star Destroyer until they all starve.

[Twickster]

And to put things in perspective, the speed of modern jet fighters is over 2,000 kph in atmosphere, much higher than the TIEs. The position seems to be evolving into 100 mediocre jets somehow taking over the world in WWII.

[StupidMoniker]

LOL. I actually don't need to answer any of these rhetorical off-topic questions. they have no relevance to the arguments that I've been making against Imperial forces in this scenario. it's not a count against modern aircraft that they still have bubble canopies. nobody has argued that modern fighters have super-sensors that allow them to find, identify, and differentiate between thousands of alien objects and organisms beyond visual range. no, people understand that real-world limitations are applicable in the real-world easily enough. the through-line argument in favor of Imperial forces in this thread has been that the Empire is not limited by any real-world concerns or limitations at all.

That was in response to your post claiming that they cannot have sensors because the ships have windows. Modern fighters have both sensors and windows. You made a ridiculous claim based on spurious evidence that you are now ignoring.

with that out of the way: I'm glad that you appreciate the possibility that TIE fighters can be ambushed and shot down easily by WW2 aircraft while they are conducting low-speed, low-level ground attack missions.

Which is why you would never have them undertake low-speed low-level ground attack missions. All of your arguments require that the Imperials ignore their technological advantages and instead carry the idiot ball and put themselves in a position to be killed.

this also means that those 8 shuttles and 12 TIE bombers are at a high risk of getting shot down too. remember, the declared flight speed of these aircraft inside of atmospheric conditions is about 528 mph. that's 40 mph slower than the Me-262's best speed in level flight. (it can dive even faster). most high-end fighters could actually catch these shuttles at the end of a medium length dive. moreover, the shuttles have to bleed off a considerable amount of speed when they turn. so, they won't always be able to fly at their top speed during combat operations.

Why are the shielded shuttles in danger of being shot down based on the fact that unshielded TIE fighters can be shot down. WWII weaponry has no feats of taking down a shielded target, because shields did not exist in WWII.

which lease me to another point. the shuttles have deflector shields... but the TIE bombers do not. if TIE fighters can be shot down by WW2 aircraft, as you have implicitly admitted too... then the bombers, which are even slower and bigger targets, get taken out as well.

Which is why you would never expose a TIE bomber to enemy aircraft.

if a Me-262 is starting from an altitude of 10,000 feet it would be VERY EASY for them to simply point their nose down and start a diving attack on this shuttle as it mills about blowing up targets on the ground.

If a Lambda class shuttle is in orbit, it would be VERY EASY to watch where one of the very limited numbers of Me262s landed and then come down from space where no one is looking because mankind has not put anything into space yet, and blow it up on the ground, along with all the other planes sitting on the ground, along with the fuel tanks, fuel trucks, AA guns, and the runway. Then fly back up to space before any planes from the nearest airbase could come to provide support. They have no need to act like a WWII army, because they are a galaxy spanning interstellar space navy.

since shields have no feats for protecting against mid-air collisions against objects of significant size.... that means that pretty much any high-end fighter with a pilot prepared to throw his life away to destroy a shuttle can take it out by a few basic methods. ramming it. flipping it off course. or pushing it into the ground. wing tipping and pushing techniques were used to force V1 rockets off targets. the same can be done to shuttles. I shouldn't have to explain the value of ramming attacks. it's a case of losing one aircraft in exchange for another. in this scenario the loss of even one shuttle is catastrophic for the Imperial forces stranded on planet earth.

There are in fact feats of shields protecting against physical objects. Flying through an asteroid field (of far higher density than a real universe asteroid field) put enough damage into the shields of a Star Destroyer that its shields came down and a giant asteroid took out the bridge. We have seen shields prevent physical objects from passing through as far back as the Phantom Menace, where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon cannot reach Maul until the shields go down and again in the Revenge of the Sith when Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine are all trapped with shields while attempting to flee the Invisible Hand. So I don't grant that a single fighter could ram a shielded Lambda shuttle and destroy it.

speaking of low end showings... did you know what the most efficient and safest means for a fighter that enjoys superior speed, sustained turn rate, and climbing ability to shoot down a completely inferior aircraft is? it's called "slow down to just slightly above the speed of your adversary and follow them". this is a pretty basic and unavoidable law of aerial combat. if you don't believe me you can always look at Robert L. Shaw's classic volume "Fighter Combat" by Naval Institute Press. he specifically deals with this on pages 182 to 185. in this scenario TIE fighters can either be faster OR more maneuverable... but they can't do both at the same time in combat conditions. if they want to quickly shoot down an enemy aircraft they are going to have to slow down to the speed of their target and get behind them. this automatically puts them in grave danger of being attacked in turn.

That might be important if the shielded Lambda shuttles didn't have a rearward facing turret and a front facing turret, giving it 360 degree firing arcs. They also never, ever, ever have to engage in a dogfight because they can simply be in a place where they are completely out of reach, wait for an opportune moment, and swoop down and blow planes up on the ground.

one thing needs to be pointed out. 1944 was arguably the high-water mark for the skills of combat pilots in world history. at this stage we had thousands of pilots who had achieved ace status. Adolf Glunz, a member of JG26, managed to shoot down three superior aircraft inside of two minutes. he simply stumbled upon a formation as he came out of a cloud, found himself behind an enemy formation and reacted. he was probably able to do this because he wasn't using tracer ammunition. those neon green blaster bolts are actually a bit of a weakness in aerial combat. a lot of experienced pilots actually preferred to NOT have tracer ammunition included because it would give away their attacks.

That's all well and good if the Imperial pilots were relying on their superior dogfighting skills, but they are not. They are relying on overwhelming technological advantages.

[Mider2009]

I think even modern day earth would have a hard time but they’d have nukes

Back then I think they’d have an impossible time

[Darth Drizzle]

And to make the point of the capability of TIE fighters: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE...ty_starfighter

So, no shields, they can be shot just fine. Maximum speed in atmosphere: 1,200 kph.

Maximum speeds of WWII fighters: 400-700 kph depending on the model. So only around two to three times slower in atmosphere. They fire physical shells, with rates of fire much faster than turbolaser fire. They outnumber the TIES hundreds to one.

Each single TIE *cannot* afford to be damaged, and any damage *cannot* be repaired. Every single loss is a statistically significant fraction of the total fighting force.

Add in AA batteries and bombproof shelters standard in WWII.

And oh, any attempt at "controlling" the theater is obviated by the fact that the return point of the TIES is grounded and a known entity. The Allies and Axis could simply surround the Star Destroyer beyond the 30km firing distance and shoot anything that comes out or returns.

So yes, the Imperials just huddle inside the Star Destroyer until they all starve.

The TIEs were never said to have sheilds. They don't get shot down by anything because of HOW they are deployed. The swoop down from space/high altitude after the area has been scanned and targets aquired by the Lambada or other craft and taking out any Artillery/AA weapons which is standard warfare moves and they are the Empire who literally has taken over thousands of okanets. They also have TIE bombers with the ability to wreck any WW 2 underground bases considerably as they did futuristic bunkers from other planets. Also after said bombing run they can still land ATs and other Land Machines to sweep up the rest knowing that no back up is getting their in time to stop them.

Answer this. How are they shooting down an enemy they don't know is coming, can see every weapon/vehicle they have, and strike with weapons that hit like missles without running out of ammo and taking out all of their defenses before ANY alarm is even sounded?

Or are we going off the ridiculous assumption that the Imperials always fly blind into a fully prepared battlefield where hundreds of Planes, Tanks, Artillery are ready and just looking into the sky for hours on end waiting to fire on the first thing that moves. Because that is what good strategic minds do when outnumbered by the Thousands. Just blindly fly into a Battle where they already have planes in the Air and Artillery geared up in the exact position to open fire when they drop from space at any place in the world.

The Allies will never get past or come up with a way to stop the Imperials from scanning and dropping from space and obliterating their targets across the world day or night and leaving without suffering any loses to their side.

[big_adventure]

The TIEs were never said to have sheilds. They don't get **** down by anything because of HOW they are deployed. The swoop down from space/high altitude after the area has been scanned and targets aquired by the Lambada or other craft and taking out any Artillery/AA weapons which is standard warfare moves and they are the Empire who literally has taken over thousands of okanets. They also have TIE bombers with the ability to wreck any WW 2 underground bases considerably as they did futuristic bunkers from other planets. Also after said bombing run they can still land ATs and other Land Machines to sweep up the rest knowing that no back up is getting their in time to stop them.

Answer this. How are they shooting down an enemy they don't know is coming, can see every weapon/vehicle they have, and strike with weapons that hit like missles without running out of ammo and taking out all of their defenses before ANY alarm is even sounded?

Or are we going off the ridiculous assumption that the Imperials always fly blind into a fully prepared battlefield where hundreds of Planes, Tanks, Artillery are ready and just looking into the sky for hours on end waiting to fire on the first thing that moves. Because that is what good strategic minds do when outnumbered by the Thousands. Just blindly fly into a Battle where they already have planes in the Air and Artillery geared up in the exact position to open fire when they drop from space at any place in the world.

The Allies will never get past or come up with a way to stop the Imperials from scanning and dropping from space and obliterating their targets across the world day or night and leaving without suffering any loses to their side.

The Empire has not taken over "thousands of planets." The thousands of planets were part of the Republic. Palps used the manufactured war with the Trade Federation and others to give himself control and an army. He then killed the Jedi once he was ready to announce himself. The Empire then just had to bully the planets into remaining part of the Empire - not hard when you have the army.

[Twickster]

Or are we going off the ridiculous assumption that the Imperials always fly blind into a fully prepared battlefield where hundreds of Planes, Tanks, Artillery are ready and just looking into the sky for hours on end waiting to fire on the first thing that moves. Because that is what good strategic minds do when outnumbered by the Thousands. Just blindly fly into a Battle where they already have planes in the Air and Artillery geared up in the exact position to open fire when they drop from space at any place in the world.

Because the Star Destroyer is grounded in a fixed spot, where everyone knows where it is, and consequently, where all the Imperial aircraft fly from and back to after sorties, "hundreds of Planes, Tanks, Artillery are ready and just looking into the sky for hours on end waiting to fire on the first thing that moves" can be arranged by WWII armies just fine.

Also, "good strategic minds" and Imperials don't belong in the same sentence.

[Darth Drizzle]

Because the Star Destroyer is grounded in a fixed spot, where everyone knows where it is, and consequently, where all the Imperial aircraft fly from and back to after sorties, "hundreds of Planes, Tanks, Artillery are ready and just looking into the sky for hours on end waiting to fire on the first thing that moves" can be arranged by WWII armies just fine.

Also, "good strategic minds" and Imperials don't belong in the same sentence.

They would all be blasted away by the Star Destroyer easily as it's scanners know all their positions. Also they are cleared out by said Aerial craft as they see them on scanners and blow them away on the return flight or run a mission specifically to clear them out, though again it would never form as they would see them starting to build a force and squash it before it takes hold.

Or are you suggesting from 30+ miles out they shoot down TIEs in planes that are slower with weapons that have no real range all before 20+ Turbo Lasers from the Star Destroyer blow them away? Or is it the Artillery that is laser sighting the TIEs in flight and sniping them from 30+ miles out? And ALL of this is assuming that the Imperials simply let them set up a sizeable force close to their base without blowing them up as again they see them as soon as they start to form between scans from space and the Star Destroyer itself?

When is this Force assembled? Day 1? Day 30? Why would you assume the Allies will just get into position when the Imperials are blowing away targets with relative ease and the Allies have no idea how they are doing it? When they figure out that they can go to space and drop anywhere in the world at anytime what did you think they start to plan? What is the meeting they have to counter this exact predicament like in your mind? And after all this how are simply rolling up hundreds of planes/tanks/Artillery on something they have NO knowledge on besides everything we sent at it dies and nothing can penetrate it's sheilding which they have zero clue about as a World?

[Twickster]

They would all be blasted away by the Star Destroyer easily as it's scanners know all their positions. Also they are cleared out by said Aerial craft as they see them on scanners and blow them away on the return flight or run a mission specifically to clear them out, though again it would never form as they would see them starting to build a force and squash it before it takes hold.

Or are you suggesting from 30+ miles out they shoot down TIEs in planes that are slower with weapons that have no real range all before 20+ Turbo Lasers from the Star Destroyer blow them away? Or is it the Artillery that is laser sighting the TIEs in flight and sniping them from 30+ miles out? And ALL of this is assuming that the Imperials simply let them set up a sizeable force close to their base without blowing them up as again they see them as soon as they start to form between scans from space and the Star Destroyer itself?

When is this Force assembled? Day 1? Day 30? Why would you assume the Allies will just get into position when the Imperials are blowing away targets with relative ease and the Allies have no idea how they are doing it? When they figure out that they can go to space and drop anywhere in the world at anytime what did you think they start to plan? What is the meeting they have to counter this exact predicament like in your mind? And after all this how are simply rolling up hundreds of planes/tanks/Artillery on something they have NO knowledge on besides everything we sent at it dies and nothing can penetrate it's sheilding which they have zero clue about as a World?

You do not get to extend turbolaser fire beyond line of sight here. The only force the Imperials can effectively wield beyond 30 miles is an odd 100 mediocre jets and 8 somewhat durable shuttles that by chance just happen to have guns on them - the 8 shuttles being the only effective fighting complement here. If the argument has somehow been whittled down from a fighting force of an entire battleship, its fighter complement, the equivalent of unstoppable battle tanks and thousands of troops to... 8 shuttles that coincidentally have guns on them, you're in trouble.

And have we established exactly *how* durable those shuttle shields are, anyway? Say, if dozens of antiaircraft guns and autocannons hit one, would it no sell it? Slightly jar it? What if, instead, the parties get ideas from the Japanese and start ramming them with planes loaded with high-explosives? (extreme, only that this was, in fact, an actual, historical fact from WWII). This is Rumbles and there are no no-limit fallacies. You don't get to argue total and complete invulnerability just because its "futuristic tech". What, exactly, are the highest consistent forces that these shields have taken?

[Totoro Man]

That was in response to your post claiming that they cannot have sensors because the ships have windows. Modern fighters have both sensors and windows. You made a ridiculous claim based on spurious evidence that you are now ignoring.

well, I can quote myself:

additionally, if their sensors can't pinpoint two droids in the desert effectively... all evidence from the film suggests that they simply followed the launch trajectory of the shuttle and followed it to the ground. not exactly sophisticated stuff! how are these super-sensors supposed to be able to differentiate between normal road traffic and a construction part(y) over 100 miles away.

and if the sensor arrays of these spaceships were so amazing... why do they even have windows!?!?

it would appear that you completely misread my argument. I did not make the argument that Imperial starships do not have sensors because they have windows. my argument was that IF their sensor arrays are so magnificent as to pick up everything around them... why are there windows on these starships? if their sensory instruments were as truly magnificent as you say they are... they wouldn't even need windows. the fact that they DO have windows suggests that there are clear limits to the amount of detail that their sensors can pick up. in this regard, they would be limited in much the same way that contemporary aircraft are. radar can give you a lot of really useful information... but it won't tell you if you're upside down or not. it can show you that something is in front of you and 30 degrees to your right. but it can't tell you the altitude unless you change the search mode for the radar.

I'll be honest, the visibility from within a TIE fighter is very, VERY poor. so, it's a good thing they have that 360 degree radar scope. although there is the problem that with only one scope you would need to toggle back and forth from horizontal or vertical dimensions. that's kind of a problem. it would be better to have one for horizontal and another for vertical.
star-wars-squadrons-tie-fighter-cockpit.jpg
I don't see any terrain mapping radar features here, either. that would sure come in handy!

TMR specimen.jpg

now, if somebody has a better (more accurate) view of the inside of TIE fighter or Lambda T-4 shuttle cockpit feel free to post them here.