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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Adding to that, something I realized as a kid reading comics is that the inkers were using heavier line weight to make certain figures and details pop in the foreground, and less line weight for backgrounds--and the amount of line weight would vary depending on what the inker wanted to bring out.

    I don't see that as much anymore--it's a lot of lines with the same weight. Or, even if the inker is using line weight, then the colourist comes along and changes that bold black line to another colour that melts into the rest of the colours, undermining the whole point of those black lines.


    I had this comic once (30 years old comic) the lines of the links of the chains in the foreground were made in a much heavier weight than the ones on the links in the background. The perspective effect was stunning.

    In France and I think it’s also the case in Europe, there’s usually one artist with one writer. I never met this duo “penciller + inker”. It provides much coherence in style, I think.

  2. #17
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I feel like, the more effects driven and digital the art, the less integrated with the story it feels. It's like the writer is doing all the work of telling the story--through dialogue and captions--while the artist is off doing something else and not really involved in the sequential art of story telling.
    I noticed that, too!
    Quote Originally Posted by captchuck View Post
    My biggest problem is that some panels have layouts that can't be easily read. It shouldn't take a long time to figure out which character is which.
    The logic of some modern panel placement makes is read differently. I wonder if that is partially on prupose or just bad design?

    For example the Allreds did some fun paneling in Silver Surfer but it made sense. Lemire's Trillium plays with paneling, too.

    But both made sense and had an internal logic that you could quickly surmise.

    Whereas in some recent comics that have had weird panels, it rendered the story nonsensical and it was hard to suss out the correct order. It wasn't a fun game.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  3. #18
    Spectacular Member captchuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I noticed that, too!

    The logic of some modern panel placement makes is read differently. I wonder if that is partially on prupose or just bad design?

    For example the Allreds did some fun paneling in Silver Surfer but it made sense. Lemire's Trillium plays with paneling, too.

    But both made sense and had an internal logic that you could quickly surmise.

    Whereas in some recent comics that have had weird panels, it rendered the story nonsensical and it was hard to suss out the correct order. It wasn't a fun game.
    I loved the Allred's Surfer Books. Both the layout and color made sense.

    On the other hand, in a recent Avengers comics, everything was on fire for a good part of the issue and everything was a garish yellow and orange and red with no contrast. The characters fighting through most of the issue were not rendered clearly enough to figure out what I was seeing. Is it a leg, an arm, a foot? I had no idea. Never mind that I also couldn't tell who was who. I ended up just skimming the book because visually, I couldn't make it out.
    Last edited by captchuck; 05-25-2021 at 04:34 PM.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    I grew up on the years of Kirby, Byrne, Lee, McFarlane, etc, and I've noticed a lot of amateurs being hired in today's industry lately. Art styles with no dynamics or backbone, like it was all done at a lazy, fast pace. I think DC has better artists than Marvel as they have some vets working with the company. John Romita Jr.'s artstyle has aged so badly as of late, I dunno if it's due to age or just losing touch. I wish I could see artists with style reminicent of yesterday's artists, Idk if anybody else feels the same way.

  5. #20
    All-New Member TiaraPenny's Avatar
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    The second I saw you say lazy, fast pace, I immediately thought of Romita Jr. His work in Action Comics was notoriously horrendous there.

    The lazy, rushed feel is widespread and it's due to industry pressures -- like always. Instead of polished artwork, some of the illustrations look like hastily done sketches which are marketed as being "modern." Lazy, heavily shaded coloring is "gritty." Dichromatic coloring is "cleverly stylized." Like Superman Red and Blue. The fact that these styles are all cheaper and faster to churn out is no coincidence.
    Last edited by TiaraPenny; 06-25-2021 at 07:28 PM.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraPenny View Post
    The second I saw you lazy, fast pace, I immediately thought of Romita Jr. His work in Action Comics was notoriously horrendous there.

    The lazy, rushed feel is widespread and it's due to industry pressures -- like always. Instead of polished artwork, some of the illustrations look like hastily done sketches which are marketed as being "modern." Lazy, heavily shaded coloring is "gritty." Dichromatic coloring is "cleverly stylized." Like Superman Red and Blue. The fact that these styles are all cheaper and faster to churn out is no coincidence.
    Yeah, compare his old work to his current work, it wasn't a change for the better unlike other artists that had rather evolved and people would immediately know who drew that comic. If the lazy, fast pace comic art has become a thing now, this is one of the reasons why I yearn for old school comics.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Skeleton View Post
    Yeah, compare his old work to his current work, it wasn't a change for the better unlike other artists that had rather evolved and people would immediately know who drew that comic. If the lazy, fast pace comic art has become a thing now, this is one of the reasons why I yearn for old school comics.
    Oh.... people def know who Romita Jr is immediately these days too... just not in a good way...

  8. #23
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    I dropped some books from my list, not because of the art but I was spending a little too much money. Anyways, I agree with you all. Someone said about the European's way of working (writer + one artist); I'm an amateur artist and I prefer doing all by myself: pencil, ink, colour. When I discovered that there are about 3 artists working on the same art, I was shocked. Not saying that doesn't work, but in my opinion a "one man band" is more authentic. Again, my humble opinion.

    At the moment from the books I am reading, my two favourite artists by far are Nic Klein (Thor - Donny Cates) and Viktor Bogdanovic (Batman Detective Comics).

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member captchuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandro78 View Post
    I dropped some books from my list, not because of the art but I was spending a little too much money. Anyways, I agree with you all. Someone said about the European's way of working (writer + one artist); I'm an amateur artist and I prefer doing all by myself: pencil, ink, colour. When I discovered that there are about 3 artists working on the same art, I was shocked. Not saying that doesn't work, but in my opinion a "one man band" is more authentic. Again, my humble opinion.

    At the moment from the books I am reading, my two favourite artists by far are Nic Klein (Thor - Donny Cates) and Viktor Bogdanovic (Batman Detective Comics).

    I think one of the problems is very complex art because it is needed when a series is about dozens of characters at a time. It becomes too much for an artist or two to handle a put out the book on time!

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captchuck View Post
    I think one of the problems is very complex art because it is needed when a series is about dozens of characters at a time. It becomes too much for an artist or two to handle a put out the book on time!
    The difference is the number of publications (once in a while, each year in Europe vs every month in US) and how the comic is considered and consumed. It remains an handmade product in Europe while in US (and in Japan) it’s a product of an industry.

    Next to the US comics I read when I was a child, there were the hardcovers my brother bought regularly that needed something like months to produce… it was more expensive but there were 64 pages, a lot of texts and I needed almost an hour to read them. And there were first published ten, twenty years ago…

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by captchuck View Post
    I think one of the problems is very complex art because it is needed when a series is about dozens of characters at a time. It becomes too much for an artist or two to handle a put out the book on time!
    This is mainly because the current aesthetic demands overly detailed pages--where the details don't add anything to the story. I see this as just gilding the lily so the consumer can see how much they got for their money--versus ephemeral things like composition which are not readily apparent.

    Classic cartooning was about reducing the image to the basic essentials. Don't do with several lines what can be done with one. When you get to the essential elements of the figure, movement and expression--the panels don't need to be over-crowded.

    Mike Sekowsky's work on the Justice League doesn't get enough respect--his pages are a lesson in how to tell a story with several characters. Sekowsky apparently would spend an hour with a blank page thinking about the lay-out and then in minutes put it down on paper.





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  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Classic cartooning was about reducing the image to the basic essentials. Don't do with several lines what can be done with one. When you get to the essential elements of the figure, movement and expression--the panels don't need to be over-crowded.
    This way of considering comics was also the result of less sophisticated methods of printing media. Even if the color was ugly, the black line was there, making sense and conveying the information.

    What I found sad are comics that are way too quick to read: no enough text. It doesn’t make feel I got for my money. Beautiful pages are a plus, what matters is the journey and it mustn’t be too short…

  13. #28
    Spectacular Member captchuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    This is mainly because the current aesthetic demands overly detailed pages--where the details don't add anything to the story. I see this as just gilding the lily so the consumer can see how much they got for their money--versus ephemeral things like composition which are not readily apparent.

    Classic cartooning was about reducing the image to the basic essentials. Don't do with several lines what can be done with one. When you get to the essential elements of the figure, movement and expression--the panels don't need to be over-crowded.

    Mike Sekowsky's work on the Justice League doesn't get enough respect--his pages are a lesson in how to tell a story with several characters. Sekowsky apparently would spend an hour with a blank page thinking about the lay-out and then in minutes put it down on paper.
    Yes, This is a very good example of how to make things clear. Mike Sekowsky was a master of this. There are a lot of characters here, but they were always identified well early in the issue so that even a brand new reader could follow the story.

  14. #29
    Fantastic Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapyear baby View Post
    Oh.... people def know who Romita Jr is immediately these days too... just not in a good way...
    well for someone who just weeded and threw away comic boxes of spiderman and others JR jr was in the keep pile.

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    This is mainly because the current aesthetic demands overly detailed pages--where the details don't add anything to the story. I see this as just gilding the lily so the consumer can see how much they got for their money--versus ephemeral things like composition which are not readily apparent.

    Classic cartooning was about reducing the image to the basic essentials. Don't do with several lines what can be done with one. When you get to the essential elements of the figure, movement and expression--the panels don't need to be over-crowded.

    Mike Sekowsky's work on the Justice League doesn't get enough respect--his pages are a lesson in how to tell a story with several characters. Sekowsky apparently would spend an hour with a blank page thinking about the lay-out and then in minutes put it down on paper.
    thank you for the insight and pages, so true about impact and story essentials.

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