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  1. #31
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Not necessarily that they exist in general, but that governments would mass produce them and then only ever use them against one specific group rather than all the time against any enemy. If they can constantly make new ones to put against mutants, they should also constantly be shown in the first waves against things like alien invasions or super villian attacks.
    I really liked how they tried to use the sentinels during the Kang Dynasty storyline.

    They didn't help, and Kang was easily able to hack their systems and take them over, but the idea they they would even launch a fleet of sentinels to stop somebody trying to take over the world was a nice idea.

  2. #32
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I really liked how they tried to use the sentinels during the Kang Dynasty storyline.

    They didn't help, and Kang was easily able to hack their systems and take them over, but the idea they they would even launch a fleet of sentinels to stop somebody trying to take over the world was a nice idea.
    Not a bad idea in theory, but given how often Sentinels have been fielded against mutants in the past, rather bad optics if the U.S. government was ever hoping to build more positive relations with mutants. Then again, it does go a long way to make Sentinels look more heroic in the eyes of the regular human public and legitimize those times when they are fielded against mutants. Speaking of Sentinels, given the comments about how giant lumbering robots would realistically do much more damage to public and/or private property and human livelihoods in their pursuit of mutant offenders, Operation: Zero Tolerance's Prime Sentinels --- cyborgs modified and augmented with nanotech that converted them into human-sized Sentinels that could camouflage themselves among regular humans and detect similarly human-passing mutants --- made a lot more sense.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Not a bad idea in theory, but given how often Sentinels have been fielded against mutants in the past, rather bad optics if the U.S. government was ever hoping to build more positive relations with mutants. Then again, it does go a long way to make Sentinels look more heroic in the eyes of the regular human public and legitimize those times when they are fielded against mutants. Speaking of Sentinels, given the comments about how giant lumbering robots would realistically do much more damage to public and/or private property and human livelihoods in their pursuit of mutant offenders, Operation: Zero Tolerance's Prime Sentinels --- cyborgs modified and augmented with nanotech that converted them into human-sized Sentinels that could camouflage themselves among regular humans and detect similarly human-passing mutants --- made a lot more sense.
    The problem with that...IIRC...is they were denied free will.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    The problem with that...IIRC...is they were denied free will.
    Yeah, the Prime Sentinels were literally brainwashed, insofar as being stripped of their personalities and wills, because what would "weapons" need with personalities or free will? And these were the very humans the Sentinel Project was created to protect, who were instead being exploited and literally weaponized by this iteration of the Sentinel Project. Talk about dramatic (or tragic) irony.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, the Prime Sentinels were literally brainwashed, insofar as being stripped of their personalities and wills, because what would "weapons" need with personalities or free will? And these were the very humans the Sentinel Project was created to protect, who were instead being exploited and literally weaponized by this iteration of the Sentinel Project. Talk about dramatic (or tragic) irony.
    My argument has always been that the 'deterrent' needs free will to make judgement calls in the field...and also that it should not be simply about mutants...but all super humans. The government should be actively recruiting...if not outright creating...their own super humans to be put to work as military, law enforcement and intelligence assets.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    The problem with that...IIRC...is they were denied free will.
    In theory Prime Sentinels could also be made by using cloned and pre-programmed human brains as biological AIs.
    Which i remember being used as concept in the anime Bubblegum Crisis to create combat cyborgs named Boomers (which were also often disguised as humans until put into combat), capable of creative thinking and acting, while still controllable and without the danger of mental breakdowns from losing their human identity.

    Though of course that too is highly amoral and would only fit a full blown villain ala Bastion or a mega corps, at which point taking humans and forcefully turning them into Prime Sentinels suits their needs just aswell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, the Prime Sentinels were literally brainwashed, insofar as being stripped of their personalities and wills, because what would "weapons" need with personalities or free will? And these were the very humans the Sentinel Project was created to protect, who were instead being exploited and literally weaponized by this iteration of the Sentinel Project. Talk about dramatic (or tragic) irony.
    Which shows parallels to what Hickman would eventualy show in the X2 timeline of Hox/Pox.

    Where the conflict between normal humans and mutants became so apocalyptic (fittingly because Moira joined force with Apocalypse), that the remaining humans would willingly let themself be ruled by Sentinels, who in turn would promote/enforce the cybernetic augmentation of humans to make them more machine aswell (not that the ruin filled Earth looked like it was very hospital anymore anyway).

    Showing yet another end for humanity as a whole, as both groups were indicated to be declining. The normal humans on earth turning into machines, the mutant humans in space getting assimilated and exploited by the various empires they took refuge in.
    With the added possibility that many of these surviving mutants were artifical created Chimeras, of whom we don't know if they were even fertile or if the artifical fusion of X-gene bits made them sterile.

    Actualy Chimeras as a concept sound a lot like the mutant versions of Sentinels.
    Artifical created beings as "defenders" of their respective group of humanity, made for a single purpose in their entire life and to overcome natural limitations of their creators. Eventualy also turning on them too, after being "improved" to the point where they were uncontrollable.

    I guess that's another point for the "both are still the same" argument. Or to quote a freed Prime Sentinel from Excalibur #123:
    "All that hatred. All that fear. All that death and destruction. All along believing their species to be a threat to humanity's way of life. Never once realizing that deep down inside, wether homo sapiens or homo superior, we're all the same. What fools we were."

  7. #37
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    My argument has always been that the 'deterrent' needs free will to make judgement calls in the field...and also that it should not be simply about mutants...but all super humans. The government should be actively recruiting...if not outright creating...their own super humans to be put to work as military, law enforcement and intelligence assets.
    Yeah, if they were being rational and sensible about it. That said, in the MU, a lot of superheroes and supervillains have been the product of government attempts at creating superhuman operatives, so it's not like they haven't been trying. It's just that since the MU U.S. government tends to be morally suspect at best, if not flat-out corrupt or downright evil at worst, a lot of those operatives end up either being used for evil ends or going rogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    In theory Prime Sentinels could also be made by using cloned and pre-programmed human brains as biological AIs.
    Which i remember being used as concept in the anime Bubblegum Crisis to create combat cyborgs named Boomers (which were also often disguised as humans until put into combat), capable of creative thinking and acting, while still controllable and without the danger of mental breakdowns from losing their human identity.

    Though of course that too is highly amoral and would only fit a full blown villain ala Bastion or a mega corps, at which point taking humans and forcefully turning them into Prime Sentinels suits their needs just aswell.



    Which shows parallels to what Hickman would eventualy show in the X2 timeline of Hox/Pox.

    Where the conflict between normal humans and mutants became so apocalyptic (fittingly because Moira joined force with Apocalypse), that the remaining humans would willingly let themself be ruled by Sentinels, who in turn would promote/enforce the cybernetic augmentation of humans to make them more machine aswell (not that the ruin filled Earth looked like it was very hospital anymore anyway).

    Showing yet another end for humanity as a whole, as both groups were indicated to be declining. The normal humans on earth turning into machines, the mutant humans in space getting assimilated and exploited by the various empires they took refuge in.
    With the added possibility that many of these surviving mutants were artifical created Chimeras, of whom we don't know if they were even fertile or if the artifical fusion of X-gene bits made them sterile.

    Actualy Chimeras as a concept sound a lot like the mutant versions of Sentinels.
    Artifical created beings as "defenders" of their respective group of humanity, made for a single purpose in their entire life and to overcome natural limitations of their creators. Eventualy also turning on them too, after being "improved" to the point where they were uncontrollable.

    I guess that's another point for the "both are still the same" argument. Or to quote a freed Prime Sentinel from Excalibur #123:
    "All that hatred. All that fear. All that death and destruction. All along believing their species to be a threat to humanity's way of life. Never once realizing that deep down inside, wether homo sapiens or homo superior, we're all the same. What fools we were."
    Those are very good points and ideas there.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, if they were being rational and sensible about it. That said, in the MU, a lot of superheroes and supervillains have been the product of government attempts at creating superhuman operatives, so it's not like they haven't been trying. It's just that since the MU U.S. government tends to be morally suspect at best, if not flat-out corrupt or downright evil at worst, a lot of those operatives end up either being used for evil ends or going rogue.
    Or they go the "let's use criminals..." route like Freedom Force or Thunderbolts.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Or they go the "let's use criminals..." route like Freedom Force or Thunderbolts.
    Which is a terrible idea unless you can control those criminals Suicide Squad-style (coerced with implanted devices that'll make their heads explode for disobedience or defiance), and even they've had some members go rogue.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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