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  1. #1
    JUST DO IT?!?! Postmania's Avatar
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    Default Every version of Juggernaut fights

    Who wins in a juggernaut free for all?

    Bonus: Composite juggernaut fights onslaught. Can he take the rematch?

    Bonus bonus: Same as above but vs the Destroyer Armor. Who wins?
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  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Trion Juggy, 8th Day Juggy or... evil Serpent God... Klurge...?

    *looks it up*

    Kuurth.

    Yeah, those three should be the favourites, right?
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  3. #3
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Those three would be the three on the podium, yes.

    And no, none of them should have a chance against Onslaught. Given Onslaught's terrible writing, they probably can win, but they definitely shouldn't.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  4. #4
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Those three would be the three on the podium, yes.

    And no, none of them should have a chance against Onslaught. Given Onslaught's terrible writing, they probably can win, but they definitely shouldn't.
    No chance?

    Composite Juggy has a helmet that can block Xavier level TP, is capable of tearing through spacetime and dimensional barriers easily, can ignore being reduced to skeleton and keep on coming and a bunch of other stuff that Kuurth gives him.

    Onslaught isn't going to have an easy time with him. Franklin gives him a lot of raw power but Composite Juggy's general response to most things is "imma keep coming,"
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  5. #5
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    No chance?

    Composite Juggy has a helmet that can block Xavier level TP, is capable of tearing through spacetime and dimensional barriers easily, can ignore being reduced to skeleton and keep on coming and a bunch of other stuff that Kuurth gives him.

    Onslaught isn't going to have an easy time with him. Franklin gives him a lot of raw power but Composite Juggy's general response to most things is "imma keep coming,"
    I agree, he's got a lot going on, but this is Franklin and Nate and Mags and Chaz - the Onslaght pupu platter. Franklin, who puts a box around Black Bolt to enable the two of them to have a speaking conversation. Franklin, who turns Galactus into a herald. Franklin who, as a child, causes 3 crazy and badass Celestials to kinda crap their pants (they win, but do it through subterfuge, not power). Nate, who exists casually without a body. Nate, who, as a disembodied mind, kills a couple of hundred telepaths working in concert with feedback. Nate, who manipulates matter and energy like I dice tomatoes with a blindingly sharp 1500 dollar chef's knife. I don't think Juggy is shrugging the kinds of things their powers can dish. Mileage, as the Sharp one doth say, may vary.

    And, if we include Onslaught's terrifying writing, that mileage will only lead him directly to the drainage canal to the side of the road, at speed, at night, in the rain. And the canal will be filled with gasoline, sulfuric acid and fire- and acid-resistant super piranhas.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  6. #6
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I agree, he's got a lot going on, but this is Franklin and Nate and Mags and Chaz - the Onslaght pupu platter. Franklin, who puts a box around Black Bolt to enable the two of them to have a speaking conversation. Franklin, who turns Galactus into a herald. Franklin who, as a child, causes 3 crazy and badass Celestials to kinda crap their pants (they win, but do it through subterfuge, not power). Nate, who exists casually without a body. Nate, who, as a disembodied mind, kills a couple of hundred telepaths working in concert with feedback. Nate, who manipulates matter and energy like I dice tomatoes with a blindingly sharp 1500 dollar chef's knife. I don't think Juggy is shrugging the kinds of things their powers can dish. Mileage, as the Sharp one doth say, may vary.

    And, if we include Onslaught's terrifying writing, that mileage will only lead him directly to the drainage canal to the side of the road, at speed, at night, in the rain. And the canal will be filled with gasoline, sulfuric acid and fire- and acid-resistant super piranhas.
    Now, I had forgotten Nate was in there.

    however, where do we stand on granting Onslaught feats for Franklin that came after the fact? While he may have "had the powers of Franklin," my assumption would be that we only really judge what he did with those powers as Franklin got big buffs after the events of Onslaught.
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  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Now, I had forgotten Nate was in there.

    however, where do we stand on granting Onslaught feats for Franklin that came after the fact? While he may have "had the powers of Franklin," my assumption would be that we only really judge what he did with those powers as Franklin got big buffs after the events of Onslaught.
    Always an important question, that one. I don't know how to answer it in a really satisfying way. Franklin was always supposed to be that strong, they just usually didn't have him actually be that strong. For years, he operated under "Reed put in mental blocks" as the somewhat ham-fisted way of ensuring that he didn't personally invalidate the rest of the Marvel Universe's efforts.

    If Onslaught gets even a decent fraction of Franklin's high-end, no level of Juggy is hanging with him. Well, until Onslaught comes up with a worse plan than Zemo in Civil War. And, given that this is Onslaught, well, that's kind of one of his super powers.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  8. #8
    JUST DO IT?!?! Postmania's Avatar
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    Every now and then I remember these writers aren’t writing for Rumbles consideration. How rude of them.
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  9. #9
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Always an important question, that one. I don't know how to answer it in a really satisfying way. Franklin was always supposed to be that strong, they just usually didn't have him actually be that strong. For years, he operated under "Reed put in mental blocks" as the somewhat ham-fisted way of ensuring that he didn't personally invalidate the rest of the Marvel Universe's efforts.

    If Onslaught gets even a decent fraction of Franklin's high-end, no level of Juggy is hanging with him. Well, until Onslaught comes up with a worse plan than Zemo in Civil War. And, given that this is Onslaught, well, that's kind of one of his super powers.
    I feel like that, if we're following the letter of Rumbles rules, we can't count Franklin's more recent high end showings for Onslaught from back in the day. There's been too much change in both Franklin as a character but also other characters in the mix that it wouldn't really be the same character.

    I think we have to go with what Onslaught actually showed, which was potent, but nowhere near Franklin's current level.

    That feels fairer to me.
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  10. #10

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    Trion Juggernaut actually has remarkably little feats. The whole "punching through dimension" thing is kind of vague on the strength-o-meter and arguably relied more on the fact that he was being summoned by Trion. His showings are otherwise only growing big and fighting featless giant monsters and not particularly strong X-Men.

    8th Day Juggernaut should be the strongest and toughest, feat-wise, but as far as was shown he didn't gain any new powers, just an upgraded version of his original powerset.

    Kuurth (while powered by both Cyttorak and the Serpent) not only had higher stats than usual but also had those weaknesses removed.

    There's also the lesser known dark horse of "That time Juggernaut picked up enough magic to fight Doctor Strange and Nightmare in a mage battle.", who seemed about as strong as usual but backed it up with the standard Marvel magic package.

    I think one of the latter two would win this. 8th Day Juggernaut can still be chucked into space for a ring-out while the latter two can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    however, where do we stand on granting Onslaught feats for Franklin that came after the fact? While he may have "had the powers of Franklin," my assumption would be that we only really judge what he did with those powers as Franklin got big buffs after the events of Onslaught.
    I'd back that assumption. A character's own showings are what matters, not what other characters did with similar powers especially if it only happened after the fact.

    I'd be comfortable transferring feats if they show about equal competence and power in most areas and simply failed to demonstrate the odd ability because there was no opportunity for it, but that's not what happened with Onslaught.
    Last edited by Siriel; 05-07-2021 at 10:13 AM.

  11. #11
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    There's also the lesser known dark horse of "That time Juggernaut picked up enough magic to fight Doctor Strange and Nightmare in a mage battle.", who seemed about as strong as usual but backed it up with the standard Marvel magic package.
    OMG, why do you bring that up? O_O

    ^_^
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    OMG, why do you bring that up? O_O

    ^_^
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  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Sacrifices must be made in the name of Rumbles, we all make our offerings in our own ways.
    ...I see your offering is my peace of mind. ^_^ Clever.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #14
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    All I recall Onslaught being able to do, beyond drool all over himself was create a miniature Sun and wax poetic. Kuurth has feats for being teleported to the core of a star and returning before he'd taken a full step, and he doesn't speak English. For my money I'd back him, especially considering sans Juggernaut, Kuurth was breaking Colossonaut's bones. Though in fairness, not quite sure how powerful Colossonaut was.

    EDIT: To clarify, I mean "poetic for Onslaught" so blowing snot bubbles while drooling all over himself.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  15. #15
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    EDIT: To clarify, I mean "poetic for Onslaught" so blowing snot bubbles while drooling all over himself.
    It's a fascinating picture you paint, and as gross as it sounds I would love to see this drawn.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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