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  1. #16
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It's a fascinating picture you paint, and as gross as it sounds I would love to see this drawn.
    Well, Onslaught is an interesting case.

    He amassed so much intelligence, so much power... it turned him into a vegetable.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Is 8th day Juggs physically comparable to Colossonaut? Or is Kuurth more the formers equal?
    Last edited by Cody; 05-07-2021 at 01:56 PM.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I agree, he's got a lot going on, but this is Franklin and Nate and Mags and Chaz - the Onslaght pupu platter. Franklin, who puts a box around Black Bolt to enable the two of them to have a speaking conversation. Franklin, who turns Galactus into a herald. Franklin who, as a child, causes 3 crazy and badass Celestials to kinda crap their pants (they win, but do it through subterfuge, not power). Nate, who exists casually without a body. Nate, who, as a disembodied mind, kills a couple of hundred telepaths working in concert with feedback. Nate, who manipulates matter and energy like I dice tomatoes with a blindingly sharp 1500 dollar chef's knife. I don't think Juggy is shrugging the kinds of things their powers can dish. Mileage, as the Sharp one doth say, may vary.

    And, if we include Onslaught's terrifying writing, that mileage will only lead him directly to the drainage canal to the side of the road, at speed, at night, in the rain. And the canal will be filled with gasoline, sulfuric acid and fire- and acid-resistant super piranhas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Now, I had forgotten Nate was in there.

    however, where do we stand on granting Onslaught feats for Franklin that came after the fact? While he may have "had the powers of Franklin," my assumption would be that we only really judge what he did with those powers as Franklin got big buffs after the events of Onslaught.

    Y'know, I just realized something about this regarding recent Franklin developments in the current FF title:

    spoilers:
    Since Franklin's been retconned into never being a mutant, that Franklin supposedly had always wanted to be a Rachel Dolezal-mutant (since he was an infant? really?!) and since Onslaught drew his strength from absorbing mutants but couldn't from non-mutants, this means Franklin subconsciously willed Onslaught to be the planet-ending threat he became.

    DAMMIT, Franklin.
    end of spoilers

    But anyway, without Franklin, there's nothing (I think?) within Chuck, Nate's, and/or Magneto's powers that would allow Onslaught to make a miniature sun. I'm sure that came from Franklin's powers.
    Last edited by Cyke; 05-07-2021 at 12:26 PM.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Remind me again, did Colossus lose the power of Juggernaut before or after getting a fifth of the Phoenix Force?

  5. #20
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Remind me again, did Colossus lose the power of Juggernaut before or after getting a fifth of the Phoenix Force?
    I think during it...?
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  6. #21
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I think during it...?
    Yea he had both. Magik stripped it from him at some point but for a good stretch Cyttorak was pretty pleased that he was tearin' stuff up with the Phoenix Force.

    EDIT: I believe he lost the Phoenix Force however, again because of Magik.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I think during it...?
    Yeah, he supposedly had the powers of both Phoenix and Cyttorak. Peter was hoping the Phoenix would be strong enough to sever his ties to Cyttorak, but Cyttorak was too powerful in his own realm. Conversely, Cyttorak believed the Phoenix's destructive force was compatible with his own and so he had even more incentive to keep Peter tethered. Peter only lost his connection well after AvX, when Majik got Peter to her realm and was able to sever the connection because of her lordship.

    Edit: Now *I've* been speedblitzed by CoR

  8. #23
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Yeah, he supposedly had the powers of both Phoenix and Cyttorak. Peter was hoping the Phoenix would be strong enough to sever his ties to Cyttorak, but Cyttorak was too powerful in his own realm. Conversely, Cyttorak believed the Phoenix's destructive force was compatible with his own and so he had even more incentive to keep Peter tethered. Peter only lost his connection well after AvX, when Majik got Peter to her realm and was able to sever the connection because of her lordship.

    Edit: Now *I've* been speedblitzed by CoR
    It gets a bit more complicated, as Magik and Peter got into a fight before he lost Cyttorak's power (egged on by Spider-Man because of course)... and they KO'd each other which then somehow funneled the power into Cyclops and Emma. AvX it made no sense, and I hate it.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    It gets a bit more complicated, as Magik and Peter got into a fight before he lost Cyttorak's power (egged on by Spider-Man because of course)... and they KO'd each other which then somehow funneled the power into Cyclops and Emma. AvX it made no sense, and I hate it.
    Yeah, I rationalize it as Magik using her, um, magic to counter Peter's Cyttorak powers, since their Phoenix powers already cancel each other out.

    But from what I recall too, I don't think that part was outright said or even implied in the comic. That's just my head canon and it doesn't count. If that explanation *was* canon, it would've been a pretty terrible retcon (something along the lines of Majik saying, "AHA! That was my plan ALL ALONG!" long after the event).

    It did not make sense, and I did not like it, either.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Is 8th day Juggs physically comparable to Colossonaut? Or is Kuurth more the formers equal?
    Realized I made some mistakes here that didn't really convey what I was asking properly. Sorry, anyone know?
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  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Realized I made some mistakes here that didn't really convey what I was asking properly. Sorry, anyone know?
    I'm having a hard time finding feats specifically for 8th Day Juggernaut. Sure, we're told that he gets even more power from Cyttorak in this form, but we aren't really told by how much or to what extent. The only argument really is that Juggernaut originally activated his powers too early and got a portion of Cyttorak's blessing, whereas the other 7 were woken at the right time and so their avatars received more power from their entities, enabling them to defeat Juggernaut.

    Colossonaut is obviously Colossus + regular Juggernaut, but it also gave him some feats that neither displayed before, like the ability to run 600 mph (travel speed, not battle speed). Colossus is usually more like Olympic-level fast and Juggernaut's never had that level of speed before, but somehow combining them meant Colossonaut now had this ability. He also had a more comprehensive definition of "unstoppability" in that in addition to being an unstoppable force, he also had near-limitless stamina and pain tolerance, whereas Colossus and Juggernaut could both feel pain or get tired eventually. (p.s. more AvX ridiculousness -- sicking Colossonaut vs. the Thing. Poor Ben Grimm never stood a chance.)

    One thing going for Colossonaut, though -- his demon form, which powers him up even closer to resembling Cyttorak. He's stronger than before but I don't think it's been measured by how much.

    Kuurth, though, is terrifying, almost like a steady Pyramidhead. It must be said that the dozens of anti-Juggernaut plans the X-Men had, all failing against him, is a testament of his power compared to other incarnations of the Juggernaut. But he can also possess people with a touch of his hammer, and it'd be interesting to see if he can do that to others wielding the Gem of Cyttorak.
    Last edited by Cyke; 05-07-2021 at 04:37 PM.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I'm having a hard time finding feats specifically for 8th Day Juggernaut. Sure, we're told that he gets even more power from Cyttorak in this form, but we aren't really told by how much or to what extent. The only argument really is that Juggernaut originally activated his powers too early and got a portion of Cyttorak's blessing, whereas the other 7 were woken at the right time and so their avatars received more power from their entities, enabling them to defeat Juggernaut.

    Colossonaut is obviously Colossus + regular Juggernaut, but it also gave him some feats that neither displayed before, like the ability to run 600 mph (travel speed, not battle speed). Colossus is usually more like Olympic-level fast and Juggernaut's never had that level of speed before, but somehow combining them meant Colossonaut now had this ability. He also had a more comprehensive definition of "unstoppability" in that in addition to being an unstoppable force, he also had near-limitless stamina and pain tolerance, whereas Colossus and Juggernaut could both feel pain or get tired eventually. (p.s. more AvX ridiculousness -- sicking Colossonaut vs. the Thing. Poor Ben Grimm never stood a chance.)

    One thing going for Colossonaut, though -- his demon form, which powers him up even closer to resembling Cyttorak. He's stronger than before but I don't think it's been measured by how much.

    Kuurth, though, is terrifying, almost like a steady Pyramidhead. It must be said that the dozens of anti-Juggernaut plans the X-Men had, all failing against him, is a testament of his power compared to other incarnations of the Juggernaut. But he can also possess people with a touch of his hammer, and it'd be interesting to see if he can do that to others wielding the Gem of Cyttorak.
    If peak Colossonaut also had the Phoneix Force, then I'm not gonna bet on Kuurth being able to possess him, assuming that he can actually hurt him at all with Phoenix 5 Colossus and Namor being able to casually manhandle Gladiator at a point where he is being described as someone that Kid Gladiator saw physically tear apart a black hole with his bare hands.

  13. #28
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    If peak Colossonaut also had the Phoneix Force, then I'm not gonna bet on Kuurth being able to possess him, assuming that he can actually hurt him at all with Phoenix 5 Colossus and Namor being able to casually manhandle Gladiator at a point where he is being described as someone that Kid Gladiator saw physically tear apart a black hole with his bare hands.
    I think what's more relevant, is how powerful Kuurth was, without Cyttorak also amping him. He was swinging his hammer and casually breaking Colossonaut's bones. He only ended up losing because of the specific enchantment that allows the Juggernaut to never stop once he gets going. So Juggernaut + Kuurth is, for my money, the one to beat.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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