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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Considering Jameson created monsters as the Scorpion, the Human Fly and the Spider Slayers,
    Jameson was only partly responsible for the Spider-Slayers. The other person responsible for it was Peter Parker himself.

    ASM #25 - Peter siccs the Spider-Slayers.jpg

    I expected Spider-Venom would actually kill Jameson in retaliation of all the people who died because of them.
    Around the time of ASM#258-259, Scorpion hadn't been especially murderous, nor the Spider-Slayers or Human Fly.

    Either way, I would LOVE to see Jameson after this, because, honestly, he even deserved worse than just a broken hand. I would love to see him now living in fear of a "no more friendly" Spider-Man.
    Because fascism is fine when it's your guy doing it to someone you don't like?

  2. #17
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    Either way, I would LOVE to see Jameson after this, because, honestly, he even deserved worse than just a broken hand. I would love to see him now living in fear of a "no more friendly" Spider-Man.
    I don't see Jameson as the "live in fear" type.

    I'd imagine that if Spider-man is going to get nasty with him, he's going to get even nastier with Spidey.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Around the time of ASM#258-259, Scorpion hadn't been especially murderous, nor the Spider-Slayers or Human Fly.



    Because fascism is fine when it's your guy doing it to someone you don't like?
    1) The Scorpion and the Human Fly became insane by the treatments that turned them into what they are now. And they got really mad with Jameson when he decided to avoid any relation with them because of the bad publicity. When the Scorpion tried to kill Jameson when he was going to marry Marla, he said he has been working on paying Scorpion's "victims", which means the Scorpion already killed some people.

    2) I don't get what do you mean with fascism. How would you feel if you are trying your best to help people and an imbecile uses his money to make people you have done you didn't? Even go as far as sending killing machines against you? Honestly, I see in Jameson the spirit of "certain guy" who made the life of his own son miserable, scorning every single thing he did and even saying things like all his good grades were because he cheated. You call "fascism" when a jerk like that get what he deserves? I say that's a pursuer getting what he really deserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I don't see Jameson as the "live in fear" type.

    I'd imagine that if Spider-man is going to get nasty with him, he's going to get even nastier with Spidey.
    Don't you remember Jameson back then?

    He worked with Stiltwell to create the Scorpion, but when the Scorpion went out of control, he hid behind Spider-Man and begged him to stop the same monster he created. Jameson only looks like a strong man with people weaker than him (like his own employers), but he's actually as a coward as a liar. The only time he proved to have some guts was when his son was trapped in the Man-Wolf's issues.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I don't get what do you mean with fascism.
    Brutally hurting a journalist and telling him there will be more if he publishes another word about Spider-Man. That's fascism.

    How would you feel if you are trying your best to help people and an imbecile uses his money to make people you have done you didn't?
    People doing bad things to you doesn't mean it's open season on them especially since Spider-Man is physically far more powerful than Jameson and can murder him with a single thought any time he chooses while Jameson is taking a personal risk in warning society about what a menace Spider-Man is, and ultimately becomes a prophet unheeded.

    You call "fascism" when a jerk like that get what he deserves? I say that's a pursuer getting what he really deserved.
    That's what actual fascists said against their victims too.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Brutally hurting a journalist and telling him there will be more if he publishes another word about Spider-Man. That's fascism.
    No, hurting a journalist with the intention of suppressing/censoring the press is fascism, what SM does here is going for revenge not only for Jameson using the paper to personally go after him but for creating villains to do so as well.

    SM has no intention of censoring or suppressing the Daily Bugle, or the free press, he was just going after vindication for years of unjust persecution.
    Last edited by Noronha; 05-09-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Brutally hurting a journalist and telling him there will be more if he publishes another word about Spider-Man. That's fascism.

    That's what actual fascists said against their victims too.
    You clearly haven't been victim of pursuit in your life; especially a senseless one.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Brutally hurting a journalist and telling him there will be more if he publishes another word about Spider-Man. That's fascism.



    People doing bad things to you doesn't mean it's open season on them especially since Spider-Man is physically far more powerful than Jameson and can murder him with a single thought any time he chooses while Jameson is taking a personal risk in warning society about what a menace Spider-Man is, and ultimately becomes a prophet unheeded.



    That's what actual fascists said against their victims too.
    I simply do not agree. What JJJ did to Spider-Man down through the years was not being objective and searching for the truth. It was petty jealousy ( which he admitted himself) and he was using his position of power to strike out against him. JJJ also used Smythe and Gargan as weapons against Spider-Man. What the Symbote is having Peter is morally wrong (turning him into a rabid dog that needs to be put out of its misery is a point I made earlier) but it is not Fascism. Why? In Fascism, Communism and other forms of dictatorship the power comes from the government not from an individual.,
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 05-09-2021 at 03:51 PM.

  8. #23

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    what makes this worse is that much of fandom will now start retroactively insisting that "Peter has quietly been a fascist all along" or "Flash was right to bully him"--
    it's coming. watch.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    what makes this worse is that much of fandom will now start retroactively insisting that "Peter has quietly been a fascist all along" or "Flash was right to bully him"--
    it's coming. watch.
    Jonah has done a whole lot of bad stuff.He got easy imo.Batman does this to every 1 in 10 henchmen when then don't immdeiately comply.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    what makes this worse is that much of fandom will now start retroactively insisting that "Peter has quietly been a fascist all along" or "Flash was right to bully him"--
    it's coming. watch.
    No because this is What If. And Peter’s actions here are extreme.

    616 Peter has time and time again risked his life to save Flash, Jonah, and others he dislikes. He would never go out of his way to bully or intimidate or brutalise civilians. Maybe a few pranks but that’s it.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Jonah has done a whole lot of bad stuff.He got easy imo.Batman does this to every 1 in 10 henchmen when then don't immdeiately comply.
    Well a lot of people do think Batman is borderline fascist what with being a billionaire who goes out at night and beats up the poor and the mentally ill.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    No because this is What If. And Peter’s actions here are extreme.

    616 Peter has time and time again risked his life to save Flash, Jonah, and others he dislikes. He would never go out of his way to bully or intimidate or brutalise civilians. Maybe a few pranks but that’s it.
    Well lets not forget the symbiote affecting him as well.Peter isn't in his right mind

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Well a lot of people do think Batman is borderline fascist what with being a billionaire who goes out at night and beats up the poor and the mentally ill.
    Batman I can see.Peter is an every-day avg who usually resorts to low damage.The symbiote affecting him in a big way and he still just breaks a hand is still better than jonah deserves.i like the character of jonah but he has done some terrible stuff in the past

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    ...and he still just breaks a hand...
    Whoa..."still just breaks a hand".

    That's ridiculously understating the level of violence in that scene as well as implying that breaking people's hands is somehow an acceptable level of violence on the order of low-intensity pranks. It's not.

    Again you have to call out people when they do bad stuff, even when those people are folks you are fan of. Being Spider-Man doesn't mean anything or everything he does is okay. In fact that's the opposite of his origin story.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Whoa..."still just breaks a hand".

    That's ridiculously understating the level of violence in that scene as well as implying that breaking people's hands is somehow an acceptable level of violence on the order of low-intensity pranks. It's not.

    Again you have to call out people when they do bad stuff, even when those people are folks you are fan of. Being Spider-Man doesn't mean anything or everything he does is okay. In fact that's the opposite of his origin story.
    I see your point but you have to take the context in reference here.
    Jonah is a man who has for decades in real time or years in the MU hounded Spider-man.He has created muder-bots, hired killers and other people(luke cage),conducted experiments etc. to get Spider-man arrested or killed.
    In the beginning it was justifiable because if a guy leaps from buildings and interferes in police work he can be a threat.But even when Super-heroes became a somewhat normal phenomenon and Spider-man proved to most of the city that he was trying to help Jonah never stopped.we know that this is because he hates masks because he had a traumatic experience with a guy wearing one.It's like a big news channel making fake news(he constantly accused Spider-man for crimes he didn't commit) against people working in IT because an IT guy killed his wife.
    What Jonah has done in the past is criminal.
    Now for Spider-man to break his hand would again be a wrong thing to do since 2 wrongs don't make a right even though jonah deserves it.That is why he never did and will never do it in his right mind.Also since his secret identity means he can't really sue him he really has no other way to stop Jonah.Jonah doesn't exactly listen to people specially when in regards to Spider-man.
    Now for the most important point.He is undergoing a major loss and the symbiote has a stronger hold on him than ever.He just broke his promise to never kill because of it.I think it is safe to say that the symbiote made him do it.
    Also so many heroes like daredevil,cyclops and batman break arms and legs and don't even look back.I assume via your DP that you are a cyclops fan.Cyclops has done many terrible things for what he considered was the only way.One of the tamer things he did was torture a hellfire henchman who beat up Pixie even though he was probably brainwashed into it by the club.he used his fear of needles to get info.
    Jonah's news affects millions of people and makes them hate Spider-man.That is how the Spider-slayers got to him and saw the light of day.Jonah went as far as to put a prize for his identity in the millions which had cops and general public putting themselves in danger for the money.Scorpion,Spider-slayers,human fly and others when fought Spider-man harmed a lot of people and potentially could have killed them.
    If breaking the hand of such a person(under heavy influence of a symbiote and undergoing major loss and breaking a lifetime vow) can stop him from doing things like this in the future I think it is justified(not the right thing but more than deserved).

    "Around the time of ASM#258-259, Scorpion hadn't been especially murderous, nor the Spider-Slayers or Human Fly."
    Are you justifying these actions by saying that not a lot of people got killed?Yet a broken hand to a guy who has done things worse than many criminals makes Spider-man a fascist.This is a clear double-standard
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 05-11-2021 at 07:01 AM.

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