Discussions of discrimination in superhero tv and film

[CosmiComic]

Dude again it's a metaphor. No this isn't some serious cover of discrimination it's surface level theatrics.

Really? And here I thought White stand-ins can better represent racism against PoC than actual PoC heroes!

[Castle]

Dude again it's a metaphor. No this isn't some serious cover of discrimination it's surface level theatrics.

A metaphor that still covers the issue of discrimination in a deeper way many actual black POC characters dont' do in a fictional world because stories about discrimination of any sorts are not the main focus of the POC characters. you cant also dismiss metaphor in a fictional universe if it is too intertwined with the stories.

When Marvel made Nick Fury Black in Universe 1610. It was not for giving him stories based on discrimination. it was done because Sam L Jackson always came of like a cool dude in movies. Also have you Wondered why War Machine never got a discrimination story arc in the Iron Man movies?

Lastly this is not a Metaphor, even if Magneto was not a mutant, he would still have killed those racist Nazis.

[CliffHanger2]

Really? And here I thought White stand-ins can better represent racism against PoC than actual PoC heroes!

Bruh...I mean that's what he's saying and doesn't even see how wrong that it is...

[CosmiComic]

Bruh...I mean that's what he's saying and doesn't even see how wrong that it is...

Idk what to even say. I know the X-Men's heart is in the right place, but it's not real representation. And to think otherwise makes no sense to me

[CliffHanger2]

Idk what to even say. I know the X-Men's heart is in the right place, but it's not real representation. And to think otherwise makes no sense to me

Agreed, I like some of those movies but let's not get ridiculous.

[CliffHanger2]

A metaphor that still covers the issue of discrimination in a deeper way many actual black POC characters dont' do in a fictional world because stories about discrimination of any sorts are not the main focus of the POC characters. you cant also dismiss metaphor in a fictional universe if it is too intertwined with the stories.

When Marvel made Nick Fury Black in Universe 1610. It was not for giving him stories based on discrimination. it was done because Sam L Jackson always came of like a cool dude in movies. Also have you Wondered why War Machine never got a discrimination story arc in the Iron Man movies?

Lastly this is not a Metaphor, even if Magneto was not a mutant, he would still have killed those racist Nazis.

Well what about Storm?Bishop? or Darwin who was killed off horribly. Why didn't they get their discrimination arcs outside mutant fantasy? It's only Magneto who's ethnicity was shoe-horned in with no complaints. I wonder why...

[80sbaby]

So we had a poster here who says they basically tune out whenever a POC "blames white people" for all their issues. Yet I'd be willing to bet anything that they also agree that discrimination against mutants is wrong. This shows the fundamental problem with the X-Men. Most people disagree with discrimination on a conceptual level but don't see it when it's presented in reality. That's why X-Men is basic/surface level. I've seen plenty of white folks understand Magneto's motivation and see him as being in the right but not nearly as many view Killmonger the same way.

[ed2962]

While not much, I did find it interesting that the first Wonder Woman movie brought attention to racism during WW1 with Chief...which is a quite different from the period piece Captain America: the First Avenger where they ignored it. I haven't seen Falcon and Winter Soldier however..



Do you want to like...NAME a example? Or is this one of those "boogeyman" things that doesn't exist but your mind takes it as an attack? I remember someone thought that the Black Panther movie was villainizing Caucasian people because the villain mentioned something about slavery. It was like...this is why they HAVE to have Ross there, as even when no one is thinking about you we have to reaffirm that "not all x".

It was there, but if you blinked you'd miss it. It's when Cap saved the POWs, the Asian guy walked up and and I think Dugan said, "Oh what, we have to take everyone now?" And the Asian guy gets in his face and says, "Hey! I'm from Frenso, Ace!" It was a subtle reference to the anti-Japanese prejudice in America at the time.

[Castle]

Well what about Storm?Bishop? or Darwin who was killed off horribly. Why didn't they get their discrimination arcs outside mutant fantasy? It's only Magneto who's ethnicity was shoe-horned in with no complaints. I wonder why...

Bishop has never been a major player in the movie. I agree with Darwin but I would at least acknowledge the part where Shaw says, you all will either be slaves or rise up and rule and the scene cuts to Darwin, who is black. So you get the slavery references. it is not erased.

As for Storm , in X3 she is the one person who is the most vocal about getting the cure and that is not a coincidence because she is the only black character in the show and that is Storm from the comics. I mean this is why I sort of laughed when you called X3 a bad film because X3 alone still had more about this themes than anything thing Marvel has done in current years. X3 just felt rushed but the themes were still very present.

This was Storm's reaction to the cure.


You are calling it a fantasy but please remember. Falcon and King Black Panther and Wakanda are also fantasy. they are all fantasy taking place in the same one marvel universe created by mostly the same marvel folks, so how do we judge all of them? well. ...it is down to who gave more time and forces on those themes and the answer is still X-MEN.

Bruh...I mean that's what he's saying and doesn't even see how wrong that it is...

It's not what I said though, please stop keep misquoting me.

No one is 100% calling for stand ins because the world of fiction is already a stand in, what we are calling for is great stories that deal with this issues in a way that is convincing because that is what will make the themes matter the most. not the fictional characters skin color. Superhero's are not real. this are not biopic about Malcom X. Also if stand ins White characters had deeper stories on the issues, than that is the fault of the publisher, not the stand in characters.

Star Wars OT is another good example though not really about discrimination in a way we talk about it here but it was a better take on diversity that made it worth it or did not feel forced or woke. the original trilogy is better than the Disney trilogy because it utilised their female and poc characters a lot better thanks to their good story arcs.

The new disney trilogy never cared about giving them stories or any substance. all they wanted was to tick box a check sheet. Leia and Lando are better characters than Fin and Rey for many of the reasons Professor X and Magneto are better characters than Black Panther and Killmonger with a better take on discrimination stories in comic films as Leia and Lando did better with feminism and un-stereotypical black male.

[Coal Tiger]

Well what about Storm?Bishop? or Darwin who was killed off horribly. Why didn't they get their discrimination arcs outside mutant fantasy? It's only Magneto who's ethnicity was shoe-horned in with no complaints. I wonder why...

The fox movies took the brave stance of telling all their discrimination stories with white people. It’s more mature that way. Why bother to actually address social issues directly when you can just use metaphor? All the “deep” and “dark” themes without any dark people! Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!

[CliffHanger2]

Bishop has never been a major player in the movie. I agree with Darwin but I would at least acknowledge the part where Shaw says, you all will either be slaves or rise up and rule and the scene cuts to Darwin, who is black. So you get the slavery references. it is not erased.

As for Storm , in X3 she is the one person who is the most vocal about getting the cure and that is not a coincidence because she is the only black character in the show and that is Storm from the comics. I mean this is why I sort of laughed when you called X3 a bad film because X3 alone still had more about this themes than anything thing Marvel has done in current years. X3 just felt rushed but the themes were still very present.

This was Storm's reaction to the cure.


You are calling it a fantasy but please remember. Falcon and King Black Panther and Wakanda are also fantasy. they are all fantasy taking place in the same one marvel universe created by mostly the same marvel folks, so how do we judge all of them? well. ...it is down to who gave more time and forces on those themes and the answer is still X-MEN.




It's not what I said though, please stop keep misquoting me.

No one is 100% calling for stand ins because the world of fiction is already a stand in, what we are calling for is great stories that deal with this issues in a way that is convincing because that is what will make the themes matter the most. not the fictional characters skin color. Superhero's are not real. this are not biopic about Malcom X. Also if stand ins White characters had deeper stories on the issues, than that is the fault of the publisher, not the stand in characters.

Star Wars OT is another good example though not really about discrimination in a way we talk about it here but it was a better take on diversity that made it worth it or did not feel forced or woke. the original trilogy is better than the Disney trilogy because it utilised their female and poc characters a lot better thanks to their good story arcs.

The new disney trilogy never cared about giving them stories or any substance. all they wanted was to tick box a check sheet. Leia and Lando are better characters than Fin and Rey for many of the reasons Professor X and Magneto are better characters than Black Panther and Killmonger with a better take on discrimination stories in comic films as Leia and Lando did better with feminism and un-stereotypical black male.

I think you mean Storm is most vocal about not getting the cure. Anyway it still doesn't address real racism. The irony here is that your calling for more "grounded" stories and realism. But any story with black characters in the genre actually dealing with real-life racism-HARD PASS. Nah the metaphor is better like wtf? I can't even...

[CliffHanger2]

The fox movies took the brave stance of telling all their discrimination stories with white people. It’s more mature that way. Why bother to actually address social issues directly when you can just use metaphor? All the “deep” and “dark” themes without any dark people! Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!

Yeah let's tell a story about racism using white people as stand ins because "skin color doesn't matter in stories about racism. Wtf???

[Castle]

The fox movies took the brave stance of telling all their discrimination stories with white people. It’s more mature that way. Why bother to actually address social issues directly when you can just use metaphor? All the “deep” and “dark” themes without any dark people! Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!

Did the fox movies race bend any character? no. because it was not necessary. You can't blame fox. marvel created the characters and fox just used them and if marvel had made xmen first they would not have race bent the characters either but what they would have done is even watered down the themes more, maybe even more than black panther , the movie they made with the black characters that barely touched on those themes , which even puts Black Panther in a worse place than X-MEN.

Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!

Last I checked, Killmomger Michael B Jordan who is supposed to be like Magneto is not a Nigeria/Ghanaian/Kenya/Zimbabwe actor either. He is an America black actor from new jersey.

Wakanda is suppose to be an African country but marvel did not use mostly African actors from the continent of Africa.

So both marvel and fox both got it wrong with casting if you want to go there, but only one did not dumbed down the themes. the holocaust was there in the film. I have asked for a similar scene in black panther that shows actual colonialism wars in good depth as the holocaust was shown in X1 and none can be found in the Black Panther movie.

[CosmiComic]

Agreed, I like some of those movies but let's not get ridiculous.

It didn't help how most of the focus was on White male characters

So we had a poster here who says they basically tune out whenever a POC "blames white people" for all their issues. Yet I'd be willing to bet anything that they also agree that discrimination against mutants is wrong. This shows the fundamental problem with the X-Men. Most people disagree with discrimination on a conceptual level but don't see it when it's presented in reality. That's why X-Men is basic/surface level. I've seen plenty of white folks understand Magneto's motivation and see him as being in the right but not nearly as many view Killmonger the same way.

That's why it doesn't work anymore IMO. It's too safe for fragile people barely able to handle the bare minimum of actual commentary

It was there, but if you blinked you'd miss it. It's when Cap saved the POWs, the Asian guy walked up and and I think Dugan said, "Oh what, we have to take everyone now?" And the Asian guy gets in his face and says, "Hey! I'm from Frenso, Ace!" It was a subtle reference to the anti-Japanese prejudice in America at the time.

Oh yeah, thanks, I remember that now

[Coal Tiger]

Did the fox movies race bend any character? no. because it was not necessary. You can't blame fox. marvel created the characters and fox just used them and if marvel had made xmen first they would not have race bent the characters either but what they would have done is even watered down the themes more, maybe even more than black panther , the movie they made with the black characters that barely touched on those themes , which even puts Black Panther in a worse place than X-MEN.



Last I checked, Killmomger Michael B Jordan who is supposed to be like Magneto is not a Nigeria/Ghanaian/Kenya/Zimbabwe actor either. He is an America black actor from new jersey.

Wakanda is suppose to be an African country but marvel did not use mostly African actors from the continent of Africa.

So both marvel and fox both got it wrong with casting if you want to go there, but only one did not dumbed down the themes. the holocaust was there in the film. I have asked for a similar scene in black panther that shows actual colonialism wars in good depth as the holocaust was shown in X1 and none can be found in the Black Panther movie.

First of all, Killmonger *is* an American. Maybe you missed that in your deep reading of the film. Second, he wasn’t supposed to be like Magneto because mutants aren’t a suitable stand-in for black people or any other race. The mutant metaphor was always a poor substitute for actual racial issues because there’s a difference between being afraid of a person who has dark skin and being afraid of a person who can blow up a mountain by looking at it. People would accept the “mutant metaphor” back in the day because editors were too afraid to actually put black people in prominent roles in comics, and forget about trying to serve actual social commentary to a nearly completely white audience in the 60’s and 70’s. Today they can actually tell stories about black people in media, which is why the X-Men have become about something else in today’s comics. There’s more relevant social commentary in the first 2 episodes of Falcon and Winter Soldier than in the entirety of the Fox X-Men movies, because while you’re whining about themes, they’re actually speaking to issues.