Discussions of discrimination in superhero tv and film

[Username taken]

What I MEAN is that when I hear characters of Color either blaming Whites for their problems or just denigrating them in general I tune out.

What specifically are you referring to here?

[Username taken]

The problem with a lot of people online is that they see only two races, white and "political"

To them, sexuality can only be straight and "political".

To them, gender can only be male and "political".

This is why discussions of minorities in media always ends up in strange places.

[CosmiComic]

The problem with a lot of people online see only two races, white and "political"

To them, sexuality can only be straight and "political".

To them, gender can only be male and "political".

This is why discussions of minorities in media always ends up in strange places.

Exactly. Because the default is White, male, etc., so any change stands out to these people as a political act, when they don't realize the status quo is inherently political too. That's why concerted effort needs to be made to make media more diverse. These guys will whine no matter what

[C_Miller]

What specifically are you referring to here?

I know you're trying to get them to say what we all know they mean, but it's likely that they won't take the bait. But we all know what racist rhetoric they're attempting to dog whistle.

[The_Lurk]

The last few years have been interesting to say the least when it comes to discussions around discrimination in the media.

Society (particularly the US) had largely been spared explicit discussions about racism and discrimination in superhero media. Movies like Blade, Spawn and Steel (despite featuring black leads) didn't address the race of the main characters. The X-men movies "kind" of addressed this but there weren't really any deep real world discussions about actual discrimination in the movies. Those movies basically used the mutant condition as a catch-all-metaphor for all forms of discrimination but they were pretty vapid discussions. In addition, all of these were led by a fictional minority group thus "watering" down the impact of said discussions.

Series like Watchmen (the actual direct sequel to the comics) and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier went straight into discussions about real world historical and current racism in the US. Although, it must be pointed out the original Watchmen series pretty much treated anyone right leaning like a complete nut (but that's pretty much in line with Alan Moore's philosophy). In addition, Black Panther went into discussions about African and African-American issues in a way that hadn't been before and The Boys series dived head first into addressing the current rise and mainstreaming of white supremacy in the United States.

Obviously, there's been the general expected pushback against these sort of stories because of how uncomfortable these discussions can be. Although it must be pointed that some of this pushback completely miss the point like the criticisms of the Watchmen tv series being too "political" (this sort of criticism isn't valid though considering the original work is an explicitly political work of fiction). However, the world has changed and we are likely going to see more of these with a possibly black Superman written by Ta-Nehisi Coates coming soon.

It's an interesting discussion and so far said series and movies aren't too preachy, I think these discussions are necessary to have. Let's be honest, if there was a real world Captain America, a good chunk of the US won't accept a black man taking that mantle. To simply have a series of movies that ignores this is kind of ridiculous. How will the world react to a black man having the power of a god like Superman, what does it actually mean to be a minority superhero in the US...in a country where a large part of the population actually hate and fear you. This isn't stuff that can just be ignored anymore.

Don't forget Hancock; also a great movie where the lead can just be a cool Superhero character. We definitely need more of that again. Awesome unique characters of color that are simple great because they are great; not because every 5 minutes a gang of white male cops rough of someone not white. I mean I still like watching Black Lighting for the cool action & because I like the cast. But sometimes it takes it to levels that feels a bit like I watch a Key & Peele skit.

[Username taken]

Exactly. Because the default is White, male, etc., so any change stands out to these people as a political act, when they don't realize the status quo is inherently political too. That's why concerted effort needs to be made to make media more diverse. These guys will whine no matter what

Yeah, it's tiring.

They treat stuff like skin color and sexuality like they're weapons.

That's why you have GOP states rushing to pass laws against transgender people despite like they're some existential threat to society.

[shades of eternity]

I'm thinking it makes more sense to make it a Jewish Clark Kent than a Black Clark Kent.

[Castle]

Don't forget Hancock; also a great movie where the lead can just be a cool Superhero character. We definitely need more of that again. Awesome unique characters of color that are simple great because they are great; not because every 5 minutes a gang of white male cops rough of someone not white. I mean I still like watching Black Lighting for the cool action & because I like the cast. But sometimes it takes it to levels that feels a bit like I watch a Key & Peele skit.

Hancock is a film I don't remember much but was will smith's character race a main part of the story?

Will Smith is arguably the biggest African American box office movie star of all time, at the height of his career , he reached a point where many studios would just hire him because he is Will Smith. Not many African American actors are on Smith's level when it comes to box office draw safety net.

If I remember my film history correctly. Hollywood at one time, had only 3 actors that could guarantee 100m box office USA domestic. Their names were.

Tom Hanks
Will Smith
Tom Cruise

[Vakanai]

Why is it that every time someone says "DO YOU MEAN blank" on the internet it is never what the person meant.

Now you know that's not true - I mean, usually when people ask "do you mean that movie with so and so" they're on the right track, or "do you mean that place where such and such" typically isn't far off the mark either. Of course the difference is those are actual, honest questions asked for clarity, as opposed to "do you mean something completely unreasonable and snarky because I'm trying to push a point" which is what is usually done in these sorts of debates. That sort of question is used like 20-25% of the time in real life compared to the honest ask, but 80-90% of the time online...

[Vakanai]

Would Dwayne Johnson count? Also, I think Terry Crews was a football player before he became an actor.

I'd have to look up Crews sports history, but yes, Dwayne Johnson definitely counts. Might be the exception that proves the rule, but definitely an athlete who successfully made the switch to acting.
I'd still rather not see most athletes try though. For every Dwayne there's a few Shaqs and Jordans.

Although Dwayne is a special case - wrestling on tv is just as much an acting gig to begin with as it is a sport (who wins is often fake of course, but the athleticism is real). Thinking about it, Hulk Hogan and John Cena weren't too bad in their handful of films either.

[Vakanai]

Don't forget Hancock; also a great movie where the lead can just be a cool Superhero character. We definitely need more of that again. Awesome unique characters of color that are simple great because they are great; not because every 5 minutes a gang of white male cops rough of someone not white. I mean I still like watching Black Lighting for the cool action & because I like the cast. But sometimes it takes it to levels that feels a bit like I watch a Key & Peele skit.

Hancock was alright, but kind of forgettable and didn't make much of an impact on pop culture. Now the better superhero movie where a black guy can just be a cool superhero just because? Blade. Blade was cool, slick, and stylish as hell.

[Alan2099]

Half of Hancock was a really good movie.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, it's tiring.

They treat stuff like skin color and sexuality like they're weapons.

That's why you have GOP states rushing to pass laws against transgender people despite like they're some existential threat to society.

Yet things like racism continue to be real threats to people but these guys act like it's "gone"

[The_Lurk]

Hancock is a film I don't remember much but was will smith's character race a main part of the story?

Will Smith is arguably the biggest African American box office movie star of all time, at the height of his career , he reached a point where many studios would just hire him because he is Will Smith. Not many African American actors are on Smith's level when it comes to box office draw safety net.

If I remember my film history correctly. Hollywood at one time, had only 3 actors that could guarantee 100m box office USA domestic. Their names were.

Tom Hanks
Will Smith
Tom Cruise

Kind of. But not in any racism sense.

When a couple of the immortal race his character belongs too where close together long enough they became mortal and loose their powers so they could life a normal life with getting children and becoming old. I would not say its the main part of the story but it became very relevant at some points.

Hancock was alright, but kind of forgettable and didn't make much of an impact on pop culture. Now the better superhero movie where a black guy can just be a cool superhero just because? Blade. Blade was cool, slick, and stylish as hell.

Definitely; but the OP mentioned him already :P

Just wanted to add him to the ranks of Supers that do not need racism to tell a story. Mainly, as you said, he gets easily forgotten. Not a major franchise or universe behind him + being light MCUesque popcorn entertainment from when the MCU was at toddler stage. *sigh* They should had done the sequel when they had still some momentum.

[Vakanai]

Definitely; but the OP mentioned him already :P

Just wanted to add him to the ranks of Supers that do not need racism to tell a story. Mainly, as you said, he gets easily forgotten. Not a major franchise or universe behind him + being light MCUesque popcorn entertainment from when the MCU was at toddler stage. *sigh* They should had done the sequel when they had still some momentum.

True. I think the film's biggest problem was the rando villain didn't feel like a threat, and there was no real climatic action scene exactly. Not that it needed it, it went for the more serious, deep, more personal drama route, but that's trickier to make memorable or get the audience to care about. An actual supervillain could've helped it on the action front, which would have resonated better for a blockbuster viewing audience.

Not exactly hugely successful films, but I loved Blankman and Meteor Man as a kid, and race didn't really play big role in those. They were just fun superhero films. They maybe haven't aged that well...but they're still goofy fun movies.