Discussions of discrimination in superhero tv and film

[CliffHanger2]

I think long dialogue segments can work if the script and characters are interesting enough

There's too much long dialogue segments in movies and comics in general. If anything that stuff needs to be scaled back...a lot.

[CliffHanger2]

Yes, and that is why many marvel fans like me option for the more drama driven films, again X3 does not work as good as X1/X2 for this reason.

X3 didn't work well because it was just a bad movie. Out of the 3, X2 is the only one that holds up.

[CosmiComic]

There's too much long dialogue segments in movies and comics in general. If anything that stuff needs to be scaled back...a lot.

Really? I haven't seen that. They already have plenty of action

[CliffHanger2]

Really? I haven't seen that. They already have plenty of action

A lot of the netflix stuff, Wandavision those 1st 2 eps...Admittedly I haven't read comics in awhile but definitely in the 2000s that was the trend.

[CosmiComic]

A lot of the netflix stuff, Wandavision those 1st 2 eps...Admittedly I haven't read comics in awhile but definitely in the 2000s that was the trend.

I don't necessarily see the problem. Action always comes anyway. I don't see a lack of it. Whether a series gets stretched out too much is a different matter.

[Castle]

X3 didn't work well because it was just a bad movie. Out of the 3, X2 is the only one that holds up.

Wont reharsh on X3 since I already discussed it.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...h-and-Thoughts

X1 holds up extremely well, I have rarely seen a dispute to this apart from shallow MCU vs Fox movies bad debate and that mean nothing much with honest analysis where the facts of the movie scenes should matter only. X1 is one of the most direct relevant movies that has dealt with discrimination in superhero tv in ways , marvel has not done or will ever do again. See my first post when I said the events of that movie but we need to ask ourselves how many superhero tv and film care to have their first moments in nazi camps of a jew,

You will not find a opening scene in comic films that has gone further this. This not only hold up, it singly handily destroys any narrative that superhero films are just about fun and humor and what better way to do that than having a character been discriminated against in a Nazi camp this was not even an allegory.



X1 was a film I usually always dismissed as ''best'' of anything until I accidentally discussed the film again many years later here as a much older adult that has the comic book genre take a different part. I actually realised just how deep the movie went on the issue compared to say another film like black panther? That even came as a shock to me because X1 is not a top 3 x-men film but it was one of the best interpretation of tackling discrimination and prejudice in way that elevates superhero story telling beyond action fast pace fun and TOYS. If anyone would academically and fairly put forward the issue of discrimination in comic films. X1 would be near the top with hardly any real competent objective challengers because truly really? how many superhero films care enough to make discrimination and bigotry the primary plot of the entire film? The answer is None.

[Username taken]

X3 didn't work well because it was just a bad movie. Out of the 3, X2 is the only one that holds up.

Quoted for truth.

The first X-men has aged pretty badly.

When I talk about real world discrimination, I generally skip over the X-men movies because they only touched on them tangentially.

Like I mentioned in my OP, stuff like The Boys and Falcon and Winter Soldier dove straight into very real world issues (as witnessed by the extensive discussion about both series).

[CosmiComic]

Quoted for truth.

The first X-men has aged pretty badly.

When I talk about real world discrimination, I generally skip over the X-men movies because they only touched on them tangentially.

Like I mentioned in my OP, stuff like The Boys and Falcon and Winter Soldier dove straight into very real world issues (as witnessed by the extensive discussion about both series).

Maybe it worked back in 2000, but seeing it be done by a mostly White cast is outdated now, maybe even 10 years ago.

[CliffHanger2]

I don't necessarily see the problem. Action always comes anyway. I don't see a lack of it. Whether a series gets stretched out too much is a different matter.

Yeah but a lot of series are too stretched out by too much dialogue and meandering.

[CliffHanger2]

Quoted for truth.

The first X-men has aged pretty badly.

When I talk about real world discrimination, I generally skip over the X-men movies because they only touched on them tangentially.

Like I mentioned in my OP, stuff like The Boys and Falcon and Winter Soldier dove straight into very real world issues (as witnessed by the extensive discussion about both series).

Yeah it's kinda weird he says he's a poc and doesn't understand that. I still like the cartoon from the 90s tho.

[Castle]

Yeah it's kinda weird he says he's a poc and doesn't understand that. I still like the cartoon from the 90s tho.

Quoted for truth.

The first X-men has aged pretty badly.

When I talk about real world discrimination, I generally skip over the X-men movies because they only touched on them tangentially.

Like I mentioned in my OP, stuff like The Boys and Falcon and Winter Soldier dove straight into very real world issues (as witnessed by the extensive discussion about both series).

I wonder why no other series can show other comic movies having real villains that made people think of david duke, the most infamous grand wizard of the KKK who is still alive today and working, it does not really work objectively and does not define tangibility.

I know this is hard issue for the MCU with XMEN coming to the MCU, but I cannot change much of history because it shows some of the flaws of why Marvel presently needs to move away more from light hearted action driven movies. it is because of these themes that xmen handled so well that the movies don't qualify as light hearted.

Where you look at scene like this, there is barely any credibly point , why this has age badly. There is no proof, just words said from another supposedly rival series, that should not even be called a rivalry because they were not intended to be on the same level because Fiege has said, MCU leans more for kids, and Singer made it clear, his movies were more for adults and boy, does it show.



this was a comic film that avoided many action scenes but worked more on philosophy and intellectual depth between the two leads Xavier and Magneto. a far contrast from a film like black panther that felt it needed the characters to fight 2 times in less than 30 minutes that was more about the throne than discrimination themes or even falcon and winter solider where the action was said to have undermined the plot and one thing about films in general or a series that went one sided political POV , If I trust the reviews when what a film like xmen 1 did was portray prejudice in way that was A-Political. Falcon and Winter Solider should have done this to avoid any Woke accusation. Wokeness ages badly and Additionally it is the action driven films that tend to age also badly because the story comes of short.

It is sad, that 20 year movie is standing the test of time on its own merit. As I said, I have only seen few on the MCU love only movie end that say it the film has aged badly which is not really the point of this thread because this thread is to show what discrimination has been like in movies and you can find about 8 scenes in X1 that highlighted this themes for a fact

[Castle]

Yeah it's kinda weird he says he's a poc and doesn't understand that. I still like the cartoon from the 90s tho.

Well first of all Magneto is a jew and yes I am POC reason I dont like tokenism or just tick boxing or glossing issues over or handling the themes with zero depth. I think I said this already on the marvel forum, it is down to writing when it concern fictional characters. POC or white.[B] X-MEN had the POC discrimination , the white characters allegory and the general stories.

The idea that POC like myself assumes racism by default when there in no story to it is completely false. I have said it many times. a film like Blakklansman is a movie about discrimination even if it mixes fact and fiction. a movie like black panther is not a film about really discrimination because the story does not make it so even with an all black cast, a film like xmen 1 is a film about discrimination because the plot and makes it so.

Saying I dont understand it is like also assuming that many POC want Superman to be black in default, which is far from the reality, I followed the black superman movie thing and I hardly found any POC on youtube regardless of their politics supporting the idea of black superman because the story would not add up, here is a good one.



The Black Superman movement is not a big thing anymore than saying X-MEN 1 is dated because a film like Black Panther was objectively weaker tackling this issues is not a big common opinion to many people of color because we still have to judge it truthfully based on the events and history of the movie or character as Martin Luther King said, it's the content not just the color.

Honestly from what I have gathered here so far, when comic books stories tackled discrimination in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2010s. it felt as it, it was done far better than what we have now in 2020s. now, all you need is to race bend or gender bend with no real reason why, or write a generic screenplay but instead sell the the POC cast than the great complex story you have written where the POC cast would greatly matter. this is why diversity in not working in Hollywood in 2021.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah but a lot of series are too stretched out by too much dialogue and meandering.

I'd say that's more of a problem of overestimating the length needed for a specific story. Maybe it's more though how fiction is more serialized now, so the whole "villain appears, gets beat up and goes to jail idea" in one or two issues is outdated.

Yeah it's kinda weird he says he's a poc and doesn't understand that. I still like the cartoon from the 90s tho.

There really isn't any way for a metaphor to be as good as the real deal. No matter how much anyone likes it

[CliffHanger2]

Well first of all Magneto is a jew and yes I am POC reason I dont like tokenism or just tick boxing or glossing issues over or handling the themes with zero depth. I think I said this already on the marvel forum, it is down to writing when it concern fictional characters. POC or white.[B] X-MEN had the POC discrimination , the white characters allegory and the general stories.

The idea that POC like myself assumes racism by default when there in no story to it is completely false. I have said it many times. a film like Blakklansman is a movie about discrimination even if it mixes fact and fiction. a movie like black panther is not a film about really discrimination because the story does not make it so even with an all black cast, a film like xmen 1 is a film about discrimination because the plot and makes it so.

Saying I dont understand it is like also assuming that many POC want Superman to be black in default, which is far from the reality, I followed the black superman movie thing and I hardly found any POC on youtube regardless of their politics supporting the idea of black superman because the story would not add up, here is a good one.



The Black Superman movement is not a big thing anymore than saying X-MEN 1 is dated because a film like Black Panther was objectively weaker tackling this issues is not a big common opinion to many people of color because we still have to judge it truthfully based on the events and history of the movie or character as Martin Luther King said, it's the content not just the color.

Honestly from what I have gathered here so far, when comic books stories tackled discrimination in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2010s. it felt as it, it was done far better than what we have now in 2020s. now, all you need is to race bend or gender bend with no real reason why, or write a generic screenplay but instead sell the the POC cast than the great complex story you have written where the POC cast would greatly matter. this is why diversity in not working in Hollywood in 2021.

So basically any superhero movie/show dealing with racism that has a black lead or cast has zero depth. Got it. .

[Castle]

So basically any superhero movie/show dealing with racism that has a black lead or cast has zero depth. Got it. .

No. that is not what I said.

Superhero movies and TV must actually deal with racism and discrimination and that has to be the main entire plot of the show or movie regardless of the colour of the character. that is how you get depth. reason I can easily show countless scenes in X1 where the themes is present because that is the main plot of the movie. There are many movies with black leads but not all those movies means the story is about discrimination.

Additionally for Marvel in particular, their stories are naturally weaker because these themes are not light hearted themes and marvel has to stay light-hearted and if you remain light hearted, you would not have much depth. that is just a general writing tip that you cannot escape.

I have not seen film about discrimination that is light hearted not Glory, Malcom X, 12 year a slave, Schindler's List, Django Unchained. None of this movies were light hearted , so why should a comic film be different? this is the reason for a fact that Singer chose to open X1 in Nazi camps. He did that on purpose to show comic films can be just as heavy. to say that is now dated just won't hold any water.

The issue is a dark subject matter. this is the reason you can have scenes like this in an X-Men movie, where you are self aware of the issue of discrimination and not something that is glossed over.


I know some are seeing this from only a MCU vs FOX pov, but please this is bigger than that. let us stay more focused with what we have watched actually in the films or show.