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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think the problem with that is that it sounds like the Druids idea that a lot of Harry Potter fanfiction writers have. Druids were basically what wizards were to Muggles in that setting.

    Rather than a minority, it comes off elitist.
    And should we not be separating fanfiction from actual cannon. I will give harry potter huge credit for actually tackling discrimination in an excellent and complex way for a children labelled series. that it is not a factual truth anymore....that harry potter is just for kids. NOPE.

    the mudbloods, muggle borns, squibs, pure blood and half blood structure was nothing short of brilliant.

    That story was so indepth, that you did not really need to make Hermione Granger black as they did in the stage play.

    Which confirms what I said along. it is not the fictional characters skin that will matter by default, it is now good the writers wrote the story that can make the readers see the themes clearly, than just the race of the characters...just because????

  2. #62
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I say it all the time I love racing bending it is ONLY time certain fans cry for minority or original character to be used.
    Certain fans yes, but I feel it's ingenious to act like it's a majority of fans or it's the only time people want such characters to be used. There's an element of some very biased people yes, to put it mildly, and some of their cries are fraudulent. But there's a lot of sincere people too who do want original minority characters used. How can any of us tell which of the two groups crying foul are the larger group?

    (for the record I'm fine with skipping all the Robins and going straight to Signal)

  3. #63
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Speaking of Vixen. while I never read her comics, I felt sort of disappointed by how her story arc played in Justice League unlimited.
    I can't remember how her story arc played out other than "John Stewart's rejected love interest under Hawkgirl." Although that would be disappointing yeah. I remember not thinking much of Vixen back then. Ir wasn't until after the CW appearance and people talking her up here that I learned "Oh wow, Vixen's actually really cool."
    The DCAU was great, but looking back, there were a lot of ways it could've been better, and Vixen is one of them.

  4. #64
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    There was a Steel movie that was an utter mess of a disaster
    We don't talk about that Steel. That Steel was a disappointment to one young Steel fan who had seen him on Superman: The Animated Series and thought Iron Man with a cape and hammer was one of the coolest things ever.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    They don't even have to create a brand new POC character - they already have some of the best ones out of the Big Two! They just need to use them. Steel has always been a favorite character of mine, and Vixen is primed and ready to hit the media big leagues. Bronze Tiger could be a martial arts extravaganza. I only recently learned of Amazing Man but from what little I know he could be big time, easy, with the right push. But do they have any movies coming up? No, because it's somehow better to change a character who's always going to be white in most people's eyes. It just doesn't make sense...
    Same here. The movie could end up being good but I'm not optimistic because its brought to you by WB/past-his-prime-JJAbrams and the-writer-who-pissed-off-Black-Panther's-fanbase

  6. #66
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Same here. The movie could end up being good but I'm not optimistic because its brought to you by WB/past-his-prime-JJAbrams and the-writer-who-pissed-off-Black-Panther's-fanbase
    This honestly worries me the most. If he pisses of the fans of a actual POC character like Black Panther, how is he going to pull not messing it up on a character who's fans are already coming in either miffed or wary because the character was race swapped? I mean, it's going to take a level of skill and care to win people over to this new take, and he's not capable of pulling it off when the hero hasn't changed race.

    I haven't read his BP, but I heard he put rape camps in Wakanda. If that's true at all, then we should be leary.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    This honestly worries me the most. If he pisses of the fans of a actual POC character like Black Panther, how is he going to pull not messing it up on a character who's fans are already coming in either miffed or wary because the character was race swapped? I mean, it's going to take a level of skill and care to win people over to this new take, and he's not capable of pulling it off when the hero hasn't changed race.

    I haven't read his BP, but I heard he put rape camps in Wakanda. If that's true at all, then we should be leary.
    It's actually true.

    My problem with Coates is that his style didn't seem to tailored to superhero comics. However, his Captain America didn't have these problems because the pacing, respect for continuity and characterization were on point there. Overall I'm mixed on Coates, he obviously wants to say something with Superman but I'm not sure how well it will mesh with a large scale superhero universe like Superman's.
    Black Lives Matter.

  8. #68
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Certain fans yes, but I feel it's ingenious to act like it's a majority of fans or it's the only time people want such characters to be used. There's an element of some very biased people yes, to put it mildly, and some of their cries are fraudulent. But there's a lot of sincere people too who do want original minority characters used. How can any of us tell which of the two groups crying foul are the larger group?

    (for the record I'm fine with skipping all the Robins and going straight to Signal)

    Obviously it is not all to be brief I will just I am pretty comfortable blaming the majority of fans and it is not anything that is too bad it is how comic fans are "trained", Manga fans are trained to seek out and enjoy new titles because titles come to end, Comic fans are trained to insular because books never finish and companies make big bucks off their back catalog and constantly push old characters.

    If it is one thing I am comfortable with saying that comic book fans are going to side with tradition, Sure there's a lot of sincere people too who do want original minority characters used. But go Hal Jordan or John Stewart on the Justice League or use Signal or Any Robin before him and you know what is going to happen. The only thing I have ever seen break that tendency is a race bending with certain group of fans, Okay lets make Nightwing black.. No,No use Batwing or Signal.. We will reboot Spiderman and he will be Latino.. No, No you got Miguel or Miles use one of them. Tradition is a hell of a drug.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Meaning BP was an original black character, with it's own mythos, setting, etc that was distinctly tied to black culture. It wasn't just the swapping of a black man onto another character.
    Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Very true.

    A lot of fans only push for minority characters because theyíre afraid of their favorite white versions being touched. Or when they want to push their agenda (which they constantly accuse others of having). Part of the reasons a large vocal group of fans online (mainly the gaters) fell behind Monica Rambeau was because they were using her status as the first female Captain Marvel to attack Brie Larson and Carol Danvers by extension. It wasnít because they cared about Monica Rambeau.

    Itís the same thing with the recent talk about Icon or Steel. There was a Steel movie that was an utter mess of a disaster and Icon isnít even owned by DC (which is why thereís been no Milestone comics for a very, very long time now). Iím not saying that anyone opposed to a black Clark Kent has an agenda, just that a large contingent of people actually donít want see black superheroes. At all.
    Definitely. A lot of the opposition to race-bending, at least from what I've seen, is from people who don't want their White heroes to be less White

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Ok



    Definitely. A lot of the opposition to race-bending, at least from what I've seen, is from people who don't want their White heroes to be less White
    Ha less white. I remember a guy was ranting online about the JL actors not being white enough. Momoa being part Asian,Gadot Israeli and Miller Jewish...it's like damn...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Ha less white. I remember a guy was ranting online about the JL actors not being white enough. Momoa being part Asian,Gadot Israeli and Miller Jewish...it's like damn...
    Gadot and Miller looked mostly White to me. And isn't Momoa part-White anyway? Really, the movie was still fairly White. Idk who would complain about that. They couldn't even put Victor Stone and John Stewart in the same movie

  12. #72
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Obviously it is not all to be brief I will just I am pretty comfortable blaming the majority of fans and it is not anything that is too bad it is how comic fans are "trained", Manga fans are trained to seek out and enjoy new titles because titles come to end, Comic fans are trained to insular because books never finish and companies make big bucks off their back catalog and constantly push old characters.
    I'm going to disagree on the first bit - I don't think it's the majority of fans. Most seem pretty sincere and honest I think, especially on this site. I think it's more a very loud minority that are that way, and you can usually spot them just if you know their post history well enough. The ones who never comment on a POC character ever at all otherwise - certainly not to say anything positive about them, unless it's to further some ulterior motive. Typically anyone who complained about Into the Spider-Verse focusing on Miles or has shit to say about Superman Smashes the Klan. But most people? I think most fans here really would like to see those legitimate POC characters make it to film. I think the dishonest a-holes are rather a small subset of those against race bending and the like - sadly, they're just a very loud and very obnoxious subset.

    I also don't see the problem with comic books never coming to an end and pushing old characters. I mean, books coming to an end hasn't stopped new characters from getting created or getting a passionate fanbase. Never mind there's quite a few POC characters who can qualify in the number of "old" characters - let's face facts, Black Lightning's no spring chicken. And it doesn't hurt that we comic fans are a small minority of anyone showing up for a movie - even if a character isn't huge in the comics, doesn't mean they can't generate over a billion dollars at the box office. We need to get out of the mindset that this matters, that the comic book sales have anything to do with who can or should get a movie and how well it'd do. Even if you're right about comic books and who the long term fan wants to see, it has no bearing on Hollywood. Even if Vixen can't hold down a title, she could do gangbusters in film.

    If it is one thing I am comfortable with saying that comic book fans are going to side with tradition, Sure there's a lot of sincere people too who do want original minority characters used. But go Hal Jordan or John Stewart on the Justice League or use Signal or Any Robin before him and you know what is going to happen. The only thing I have ever seen break that tendency is a race bending with certain group of fans, Okay lets make Nightwing black.. No,No use Batwing or Signal.. We will reboot Spiderman and he will be Latino.. No, No you got Miguel or Miles use one of them. Tradition is a hell of a drug.
    I think more people are open to getting Signal in film or John over Hal in a project than you might think. I truly think the sincere ones outnumber the insincere ones, at least by a small margin. And besides, it's nerd/geek culture - we love to argue and bicker. It doesn't matter who gets a film, there's always going to be some vocal fanboys itching to make a stink. But the arguments are part of the package with fandom, no biggie.

    I'd actually prefer getting Signal over Nightwing, but then I'm one of the rare few who just ain't feeling Dick.

  13. #73
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Ha less white. I remember a guy was ranting online about the JL actors not being white enough. Momoa being part Asian,Gadot Israeli and Miller Jewish...it's like damn...
    Yeah, that guy's just hard core old school racist.

  14. #74

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    https://www.ign.com/articles/the-fal...aptain-america

    it was an interesting look at how "Falcon and Winter Soldier" explored race in America.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The problem is there isn't many Black heroes, so changing a Black one to a White one doesn't help diversity
    There are many black heroes but the movies/shows when starting a universe tends focus on earlier superheroes on average or the most known ones on average.

    As time goes on you will see more unknown heroes get a focus like you see in dc and marvel.
    Starting a mcu universe you not going get a shang-chi in phase one,but you getting a shang-chi movie now.
    Starting the dceu you not get a static shock,jessica cruz,john stewart but you will getting them.

    So you getting original poc heroes and race swap ones in both the dceu and mcu but dc is doing the race swap of it's superheroes more so then marvel.

    There are other comic companies that have and still creating new black heroes all the time,in the u.s and outside the u.s. as well.
    Last edited by mace11; 05-10-2021 at 11:21 AM.

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