Discussions of discrimination in superhero tv and film

[80sbaby]

I haven't watched Blackman but race definitely played a role in Meteor Man. Not racism but race. That film was specifically about issues in black neighborhoods.

[green_garnish]

What I MEAN is that when I hear characters of Color either blaming Whites for their problems or just denigrating them in general I tune out.

If people like you stopped doing that, it almost certainly would not happen as much.

[skyvolt2000]

The southern states wouldn't even show that one time Kirk and Uhura kissed I think.

Yes that did happen. Along with....

Robotech had an episode that showed how Roy and Claudia fell in love-there were states that had tv stations refuse to show that. Now it is of interest that the second chapter of Robotech had Bowie Grant fall in love with a white alien-Musica. Not sure if those episodes were shown. It is also to not in the original version of Southern Cross (the second chapter of Robotech)-Bowie was General Emerson's son. Harmony Gold went out of their way to EDIT that relationship. Including cutting out a scene where Emerson had a photo of Bowie in his office.

As Told By Ginger's final season-has not aired in the USA as that was the season Ginger fell in love with Darryl Peterson (who we learn in the final episode married).

Static Shock among it's battle with the network-Frieda's role on the show differed from the comic. Her first boyfriend-Wade was written out and in the end she married Virgil and have 2 kids.

[CosmiComic]

Quite the opposite of the freedom the USA supposedly represents

[ed2962]

Hancock is a film I don't remember much but was will smith's character race a main part of the story?

Will Smith is arguably the biggest African American box office movie star of all time, at the height of his career , he reached a point where many studios would just hire him because he is Will Smith. Not many African American actors are on Smith's level when it comes to box office draw safety net.

If I remember my film history correctly. Hollywood at one time, had only 3 actors that could guarantee 100m box office USA domestic. Their names were.

Tom Hanks
Will Smith
Tom Cruise

Not really. But for what's worth, the original script was a dark satire, but when Will Smith signed on the story was drastically re-written.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm going to disagree on the first bit - I don't think it's the majority of fans. Most seem pretty sincere and honest I think, especially on this site. I think it's more a very loud minority that are that way, and you can usually spot them just if you know their post history well enough. The ones who never comment on a POC character ever at all otherwise - certainly not to say anything positive about them, unless it's to further some ulterior motive.

Here is my thing on that.
Jace Fox is RUMOR (at first) to be Batman in 5g or Future State. All the sudden we see posts of "BRUCE WAYNE IS THE ONLY BATMAN!" Along with other jargon.
Yet we NEVER saw these posts when Jean Paul, James Gordon, Nightwing and Terry donned that suit.

When Hal is the face of Green Lantern-it's EVERYONE'S DUTY to support the franchise. When it's John Stewart-it's OKAY to NOT support the franchise.

Synch gets to be on the main X-Men team-it is met with PUSH BACK.

Duke Thomas did little to nothing in TOm King's Batman run and was gone by 2018. Folks treated him like he RUINED the franchise with his one panel cameos.

As many badly done stories we have seen from Marvel and DC-that DESERVE push back or low sales-most don't get it. Yet toss in a black person and that is enough to walk away from a book.

Yet if you are Marvel and DC-they are getting the message folks don't want black characters as leads in books. Yet when you look at other companies-that is NOT an issue. One of the hottest books is Eve starring a black girl-whose book has gone for $200 on Ebay (variants).

So what is the big two suppose to do? They both got the POC on tv and in movies-who are accepted by the general audience. Yet NOT accept in the comic book audience.

What I MEAN is that when I hear characters of Color either blaming Whites for their problems or just denigrating them in general I tune out.

What book have anyone here has read that has done that. Where the white people were NOT members of hate groups or targeted POC. Nor set in Jim Crow era.

MAYBE and I do mean MAYBE Eli Bradley and with reason considering who his grandfather is.

[CosmiComic]

You're right. There's always unnecessary pushback against PoC heroes

[AnakinFlair]

I think things got more tricky with xmen but in a good way because sometimes discrimination is more within the families. the very first time I saw the clips of the Meghan Markle oprah interview, how she claimed they worried about the colour of her child and sort of madeher an outcast because of race.

My first thought as a comic fan came to this xmen tv episode.


Mystique in pretence of course married a prince/baron, had a baby and when they discovered the baby skin ain't white or was not even human. mystique and her baby had to runaway.

Now why I find this story very interesting is because, this people were not pure xmen villains like Trask or Kelly or the friends of humanity who are just KKKs. this was more of a classic soap opera tale, of the real world where fighting was not going to solve the answer . Also some who have married into them as people of color have spoken above discrimination in that type of establishment and some parts of society still don't see them as pure evil but more as a status quo.

I actually just saw that episode for the first time about a month ago. Really good episode. And honestly, while you were going on about the X-Men MOVIES, I think that cartoon did more exploring bigotry and hatred more than the movies ever did. Watching it now, it's surprising how adult those cartoons were.

[AnakinFlair]

Here is my thing on that.
Jace Fox is RUMOR (at first) to be Batman in 5g or Future State. All the sudden we see posts of "BRUCE WAYNE IS THE ONLY BATMAN!" Along with other jargon.
Yet we NEVER saw these posts when Jean Paul, James Gordon, Nightwing and Terry donned that suit.

When Hal is the face of Green Lantern-it's EVERYONE'S DUTY to support the franchise. When it's John Stewart-it's OKAY to NOT support the franchise.

Synch gets to be on the main X-Men team-it is met with PUSH BACK.

1. I remember a LOT of pushback when James Gordon became Batman- but it was mostly because of how ri-goddang-diculous it was.With Jean Paul, it was the first time, I think, that someone other than Bruce had been Batman. With Nightwing, it made sense for him to be Batman- he was a former Robin, and it could be said he had been training most of his life to take up the mantle. With Terry, it was the future, and Bruce was still around to give him the rub. While I'm sure that some of the pushback of Jace being Batman is because he's black, I think a lot of it is because they are making changes to the books that no one wants.

2. I don't get this statement at all. For many, John Stewart is the Lantern they grew up with thanks to Justice League/Unlimited. Many people would be thrilled with a John Stewart movie or show.

3. Maybe proving your point, but when was Synch on the X-Men? It feels like all of the Gen-X kinds mostly vanished after that title ended for years.

[Username taken]

Here is my thing on that.
Jace Fox is RUMOR (at first) to be Batman in 5g or Future State. All the sudden we see posts of "BRUCE WAYNE IS THE ONLY BATMAN!" Along with other jargon.
Yet we NEVER saw these posts when Jean Paul, James Gordon, Nightwing and Terry donned that suit.

When Hal is the face of Green Lantern-it's EVERYONE'S DUTY to support the franchise. When it's John Stewart-it's OKAY to NOT support the franchise.

Synch gets to be on the main X-Men team-it is met with PUSH BACK.

Duke Thomas did little to nothing in TOm King's Batman run and was gone by 2018. Folks treated him like he RUINED the franchise with his one panel cameos.

As many badly done stories we have seen from Marvel and DC-that DESERVE push back or low sales-most don't get it. Yet toss in a black person and that is enough to walk away from a book.

Yet if you are Marvel and DC-they are getting the message folks don't want black characters as leads in books. Yet when you look at other companies-that is NOT an issue. One of the hottest books is Eve starring a black girl-whose book has gone for $200 on Ebay (variants).

So what is the big two suppose to do? They both got the POC on tv and in movies-who are accepted by the general audience. Yet NOT accept in the comic book audience.






What book have anyone here has read that has done that. Where the white people were NOT members of hate groups or targeted POC. Nor set in Jim Crow era.

MAYBE and I do mean MAYBE Eli Bradley and with reason considering who his grandfather is.

To be fair that was a MASSIVE backlash to Jean Paul becoming Batman. I can still remember the letter pages from back then.

But I wanted to mention Eve. It’s a minority led title that’s getting massive orders but it’s from Boom studios. It seems there’s a lot pushback to the big two selling minority led titles. Although, I will say that launching new minority led titles is something the big two should have done a lot earlier. And I’m not talking about swapping out Thor or Hawkeye or Hulk for existing characters, I’m talking about completely new characters like Naomi at DC.

[Castle]

Not really. But for what's worth, the original script was a dark satire, but when Will Smith signed on the story was drastically re-written.

And I guess this proves just how big of a star Will Smith was and still is. Although I am sure the movie could have worked as a dark satire after Deadpool.

[The Gold Stream]

i can't really speak on the importance of it but i think for standard fast-paced hero movies it works better as a character motivation rather than longer dialogue segments

but i could imagine room can be made for it in slower hero movies or ones with specific-relevant plot subjects

[Castle]

I actually just saw that episode for the first time about a month ago. Really good episode. And honestly, while you were going on about the X-Men MOVIES, I think that cartoon did more exploring bigotry and hatred more than the movies ever did. Watching it now, it's surprising how adult those cartoons were.

Oh, I agree. In fact I already just this on this thread earlier that X-MEN TAS is better than all the movies, both from FOX and MCU in diving deeper with some mature themes.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ial-look/page7

there is another person I spoke to Weblucker who seem to be a huge hardcore MCU fan but like most people including me can see the writings on the wall that MCU XMEN will likely pale in comparison to XMEN TAS on dealing with these themes because even though the fox movies like XMEN 1 explored bigotry and discrimination far deeper than a film like black panther as I have proven many times, most xmen fans or comic fans, I know would still rank the fox movies below the cartoon as you have done. If it is just down to honesty or fair criticism with no personal bias.

So yeah, we are just stating the obvious. the cartoons were better than the movies. Infact that was not even the scene I liked most bout discrimination on the show, I preferred the nightcrawler episode where it mixed the themes of bigotry, discrimination and religion and one of my favourites line of the show was when wolverine in quote says.

''We are mutants, God gave up on us , a long time ago''


That line said on that show, was so shocking because you don't even here that in many r rated mature movies that is suppose to have adult characters. X-MEN TAS was an extremely mature show. So yeah, I would scrap my first post and say X-MEN TAS was the best interpretation of discrimination and bigotry Marvel ever did, while some of their films like X1 or First Class will take the number 2.

[CosmiComic]

i can't really speak on the importance of it but i think for standard fast-paced hero movies it works better as a character motivation rather than longer dialogue segments

but i could imagine room can be made for it in slower hero movies or ones with specific-relevant plot subjects

I think long dialogue segments can work if the script and characters are interesting enough

[Castle]

i can't really speak on the importance of it but i think for standard fast-paced hero movies it works better as a character motivation rather than longer dialogue segments

but i could imagine room can be made for it in slower hero movies or ones with specific-relevant plot subjects

1. it does not have to be fast paced. this is the reason a film like X2 worked and X3 didn't quite well.

why put some big theme issues in a fast paced film? it feels shallow.


2.

character motivation

This is the jackpot and also why a Mystique's character arc in DOFP worked so well because it was all done for a particular singular motivation that covers the theme, although with some ignorance of the chains of events that will come along.

but i could imagine room can be made for it in slower hero movies or ones with specific-relevant plot subjects

Yes, and that is why many marvel fans like me option for the more drama driven films, again X3 does not work as good as X1/X2 for this reason.