Discussions of discrimination in superhero tv and film

[Scott Taylor]

A lot of the time I've noticed when people say something is too "preachy" about social justice, I find it isn't actually true, but simply people don't like being confronted with uncomfortable truths. Doesn't mean it's always done well, but whether it is or not, some people will just complain about any efforts

Yep, well said. Sometimes people can look right at another person without seeing them, you know?

[CosmiComic]

Yep, well said. Sometimes people can look right at another person without seeing them, you know?

And most of the superhero films at least have only had mild references to topics, at least when compared to films mainly centered on such subjects, yet people will still say "Woke is killing us! SJWs are destroying America!" or something like that. Honestly I think the filmmakers should just ignore these guys, if not outright denounce them, and keep putting more socially relevant topics in the movies/shows

[Castle]

Yep, well said. Sometimes people can look right at another person without seeing them, you know?

Nightcrawler: ''You know, outside of the circus, most people were afraid of me. But I did not hate them: I pitied them. Do you know why? Because most people will never know anything beyond what they see with their own two eyes''.


Kurt summed it up all better.
However the issue now becomes, where does the story progress from . you can either make some see and understand or throw all of them under the bus, so that will be ''woke'' right?

[Scott Taylor]

Nightcrawler: ''You know, outside of the circus, most people were afraid of me. But I did not hate them: I pitied them. Do you know why? Because most people will never know anything beyond what they see with their own two eyes''.


Kurt summed it up all better.
However the issue now becomes, where does the story progress from . you can either make some see and understand or throw all of them under the bus, so that will be ''woke'' right?

Problem with that statement is that it takes years to get to know someone, so is ridiculous, plus it misses the entire point. It is based on the notion that being equal in looks is all that matters. Well that is a bunch of BS because our differences really do matter. The key is not trying to somehow see everyone as being single color or whatnot, its seeing how people can look and act different and still accepting it. At face value, so to speak.

Really, I kind of get the intent but people need to move past the "color blind" nonsense already. A person doesn't have to pretend everyone is the same color to see everyone as equals. Its the same reasoning that got us "separate but equal," sitting at the back of the bus and having separate water fountains. Racism is the foundation of the notion of "color blind."

[Castle]

Problem with that statement is that it takes years to get to know someone. ."

Remember we are talking about tv and films , we only have like 3 hours or 6-14 episodes. not years to know someone or shall I say characters.

Really, I kind of get the intent but people need to move past the "color blind" nonsense already. A person doesn't have to pretend everyone is the same color to see everyone as equals. Its the same reasoning behind "separate but equal," sitting at the back of the bus and having separate water fountains. Racism is the foundation of the notion of "color blind.

Separate but equal was meant to be color blind, it pre existed before color blind.


In 2021, I think nothing can be lumped together, every case is different, some things can be color blind because people can excel on their own merits in many cases. This is why I will never support the Oscars choosing diversity first over pure film artistry when they dish out their awards.

Also can I ask a question, what did you think of the recent controversy than Rege-Jean was not allowed to be superman father because he was black?

https://tvline.com/2021/04/07/rege-j...ack-statement/

Was it right or wrong for people to say it was racist although we know Superman is white on the show. Color blind can only be ignored if you are somehow self aware that this meant to be the case so watching Cinderella in the 90s where a white man and a black woman can have an asian son that marries Brandy, a black woman.


however this Cinderella movie was about making a statement that the world should be color blind. Most of this comic tv and shows are not about that kind of statement. you cant really have two biologically white characters having a black baby and vice versa, especially if their original source material like the comics never said such.

[Vakanai]

I haven't watched Blackman but race definitely played a role in Meteor Man. Not racism but race. That film was specifically about issues in black neighborhoods.

I meant more the race relations aspect of race, systemic racism, but you are correct.

And it was Blankman not Blackman.

[CliffHanger2]

No. that is not what I said.

Superhero movies and TV must actually deal with racism and discrimination and that has to be the main entire plot of the show or movie regardless of the colour of the character. that is how you get depth. reason I can easily show countless scenes in X1 where the themes is present because that is the main plot of the movie. There are many movies with black leads but not all those movies means the story is about discrimination.

Additionally for Marvel in particular, their stories are naturally weaker because these themes are not light hearted themes and marvel has to stay light-hearted and if you remain light hearted, you would not have much depth. that is just a general writing tip that you cannot escape.

I have not seen film about discrimination that is light hearted not Glory, Malcom X, 12 year a slave, Schindler's List, Django Unchained. None of this movies were light hearted , so why should a comic film be different? this is the reason for a fact that Singer chose to open X1 in Nazi camps. He did that on purpose to show comic films can be just as heavy. to say that is now dated just won't hold any water.

The issue is a dark subject matter. this is the reason you can have scenes like this in an X-Men movie, where you are self aware of the issue of discrimination and not something that is glossed over.


I know some are seeing this from only a MCU vs FOX pov, but please this is bigger than that. let us stay more focused with what we have watched actually in the films or show.

That is what you said basically. When you can hand wave every show/ movie with blacks dealing with racism in the Super hero genre- you've got a problem. And making the whole plot revolve around racism is what the anti- sjws complain about. So which one is it? No X- men movies don't register as heavy or deep...please. Especially when 99.9% of time it's just a metaphor for systemic racism. Not the real thing. But you got no problem with Magneto being made Jewish in the 60s. But if it's a black person it's " tokenism"....smdh..

[Vakanai]

Here is my thing on that.
Jace Fox is RUMOR (at first) to be Batman in 5g or Future State. All the sudden we see posts of "BRUCE WAYNE IS THE ONLY BATMAN!" Along with other jargon.
Yet we NEVER saw these posts when Jean Paul, James Gordon, Nightwing and Terry donned that suit.

As someone who said Dick should never have become Batman, I can safely say that it was said (Jean Paul was before my time, and by Gordon I had given up fighting this damn replacing Bruce gimmick - Terry doesn't count as a sort of future Elseworld - but I did voice my opinion against Dick becoming Batman once upon a time).
But yes, people who didn't complain before but are complaining now are doing so because this time the replacement is black. But there were those of us who complained about those other guys taking over.

When Hal is the face of Green Lantern-it's EVERYONE'S DUTY to support the franchise. When it's John Stewart-it's OKAY to NOT support the franchise.

Agreed, no one should have supported that 2011 debacle just because of Hal/franchise. I'm not a huge GL fan, but if you're going to support the franchise it should matter most the quality being produced, not who's the face.

Synch gets to be on the main X-Men team-it is met with PUSH BACK.

I've only consumed other media depictions of X-Men, but given context, yeah a black mutant joining X-Men should be fine - Storm's been there forever, and there's thousands of mutants and dozens of X-Men spin off teams. As long as about 2/3rds are the traditional line up it shouldn't matter to mix up the rest of the line up.

Duke Thomas did little to nothing in TOm King's Batman run and was gone by 2018. Folks treated him like he RUINED the franchise with his one panel cameos.

I only read King's War of Jokes and Riddles which Duke wasn't in, but Duke looks cool and I don't get the hate. Certainly not just by showing that he still exists.

As many badly done stories we have seen from Marvel and DC-that DESERVE push back or low sales-most don't get it. Yet toss in a black person and that is enough to walk away from a book.

I've got a whole spiel about how to get better diversity the big two need to get out of the monthly floppy direct market game and start getting into the non-direct market bookstore game with more graphic novels and targeting the YA demographic and wider book audience.

Yet if you are Marvel and DC-they are getting the message folks don't want black characters as leads in books. Yet when you look at other companies-that is NOT an issue. One of the hottest books is Eve starring a black girl-whose book has gone for $200 on Ebay (variants).

So what is the big two suppose to do? They both got the POC on tv and in movies-who are accepted by the general audience. Yet NOT accept in the comic book audience.

Simple - bypass the dwindling comic book audience.

[80sbaby]

I meant more the race relations aspect of race, systemic racism, but you are correct.

And it was Blankman not Blackman.

Yes, that was a typo ��

[Castle]

That is what you said basically. When you can hand wave every show/ movie with blacks dealing with racism in the Super hero genre- you've got a problem.

that is not what I am saying and please stop trying to rewrite my words. someone just reminded me will smith Hancock was not really about racism.

it not about handwaving, it reading the screenplay or watching the film, to know what the plot of the movie is about.I don't recall Bad Boys 1 being about racism either and that had two black characters cop as lead. Black Panther is also a good example. change the race of the cast and you are watching Thor 1. change the race of X1 to black and the main plot of the film would still be discrimination about a group of people who are different from other human either by physical appearance or by genetic.

And making the whole plot revolve around racism is what the anti- sjws complain about.

X1 did this, I hardly saw any complaints in the 2000s, probably because X-men is a political and 20 years ago the political climate was not this toxic. LOL. at this point it is simply just a lie now to say the story of X1 was not about discrimination because Marvel MCU has yet to make a movie where the plot of the film is about discrimination , you cant fault X1 for that. i

No X- men movies don't register as heavy or deep...please. Especially when 99.9% of time it's just a metaphor for systemic racism

If X-Men does not register as deep, than nothing marvel has does by default because. I have done the research, infact this is one of the reason I like the xmen series best of the marvel bunch. You can ignore the videos I am posting, because it is not an MCU clip that shows how discrimination has been dealt with. but others won't because for many it is not about MCU vs XMEN, but just the fair truth of which series has covered this themes the most and all the signs points to XMEN. reason it is easy just to post clips of movies.

this is a common stance to comic book story telling how with xmen. it is like saying batman main theme is not street crime. these are the two most important themes that have defined those two comic series and if you look at their movies, their good movies only worked when they focused solely on this themes and stayed away from their more fantastical comic bookie stories like Dr Freeze and Apocalypse

Not everything was a metaphor for racism in xmen if I remember correctly. Also you no because of the nature of the genre that defines most comic series as just good guys fighting bad guys, themes of discrimination or crime are rare, which is why you dont see them much even when the characters are POCs. This was why X-MEN first started of as a metaphor than progressed more to the real thing while keeping some aspect of this metaphor. this is why even other black characters don't cover this themes because that is not the nature of comic , please see other characters like Blade or Nick Fury 1610

But if it's a black person it's " tokenism"....smdh..

No we dont need that, because Storm is already black and a champion against discrimination



However making Clark Kent black would be tokenism because it is unnecessary.

[CliffHanger2]

that is not what I am saying and please stop trying to rewrite my words. someone just reminded me will smith Hancock was not really about racism.

it not about handwaving, it reading the screenplay or watching the film, to know what the plot of the movie is about.

Black Panther is a good example. change the race of the cast and you are re watching Thor 1. change the race of X1 to black and the main plot of the film would still be discrimination.


X1 did this, I hardly saw any complaints in the 200s, probably because X-men is a political and 20 years ago the political climate was not this toxic. LOL. at this point it is simply just a lie now to say the story of X1 was not about discrimination because Marvel has yet to make a movie where the plot of the film is about discrimination , you cant fault X1 for that.


If X-Men does not register as deep, than nothing marvel has does by default because. You can ignore the videos I am posting, because it is not an MCU clip. but others won't.

this is a common stance to comic book story telling how with xmen. it is like saying batman main theme is not street crimes. these are the two most important themes that have defined those two comic series and if you look at their movies, their good movies only worked when they focused soley om this themes.

Not everything was a metaphor for racism in xmen if I remember correctly. Also you no because of the nature of the genre that defines most comic series as just good guys fighting bad guys, themes of discrimination or crime are rare, which is why you dont see them much even when the characters are POCs. This was why X-MEN first started of as a metaphor than progressed more to the real thing while keeping some aspect of this metaphor.


No we dont need that, because Storm is already black and a champion against discrimination



However making Clark Kent black would be tokenism.

You know it's funny there was another guy on here with the exact same racist talking points and same youtube clips. I could swear you're the same person.Or maybe you 2 took the same correspondence course lol. It's uncannny really lol.

[Castle]

You know it's funny there was another guy on here with the exact same racist talking points and same youtube clips. I could swear you're the same person.Or maybe you 2 took the same correspondence course lol. It's uncannny really lol.

Please let's stay on topic. Also I don't make videos of myself on YouTube. additionally I have never said I was a he or she. I rather keep my gender private.

Here is another clip of discrimination that actually goes deep on the issue in a way that is very realistic for a suppose to comic film



When senator Kelly said, should this ''different'' folks go to school as the normal folks or not still reveal themselves, despite the fact Jean told him those that reveal themselves have been met with hate and violence and others should decide if they want segregation or not with congress clapping in support. this may be a comic film of pure fiction but where is that from in the non fiction world? try George Wallace from Alabama.


Sigh... I know some of us already know how the newer XMEN films will turn out. Likely another generic comedy comic film that wont even scratch the surface of X1 or follow the tone or story topic , but this is not the thread to project that on. let's just stick to the past tv and film that have dealt so deeply with this topic because I am getting bored of being one of the very very few persons that is coming up with various clips on how discrimination has been dealt with all from just one comic series.

it is getting more boring than discussing the themes of crime, imprisonment and policing because at least I wont just have to use Batman as my only example

[Mistah K88]

While not much, I did find it interesting that the first Wonder Woman movie brought attention to racism during WW1 with Chief...which is a quite different from the period piece Captain America: the First Avenger where they ignored it. I haven't seen Falcon and Winter Soldier however..

What I MEAN is that when I hear characters of Color either blaming Whites for their problems or just denigrating them in general I tune out.

Do you want to like...NAME a example? Or is this one of those "boogeyman" things that doesn't exist but your mind takes it as an attack? I remember someone thought that the Black Panther movie was villainizing Caucasian people because the villain mentioned something about slavery. It was like...this is why they HAVE to have Ross there, as even when no one is thinking about you we have to reaffirm that "not all x".

[CosmiComic]

While not much, I did find it interesting that the first Wonder Woman movie brought attention to racism during WW1 with Chief...which is a quite different from the period piece Captain America: the First Avenger where they ignored it. I haven't seen Falcon and Winter Soldier however..



Do you want to like...NAME a example? Or is this one of those "boogeyman" things that doesn't exist but your mind takes it as an attack? I remember someone thought that the Black Panther movie was villainizing Caucasian people because the villain mentioned something about slavery. It was like...this is why they HAVE to have Ross there, as even when no one is thinking about you we have to reaffirm that "not all x".

Yeah, Cap 1 was "color blind". It was nice of WW1 to at least do the bare minimum of acknowledging USA wasn't purely a good guy back then.

As for BP, IMO it kinda almost let White people off the hook by making the chief villain a Black revolutionary, while the White villain just kinda dies halfway through, depsite better representing the actual real world threat posed towards African nations. But somehow White people are oppressed!

[CliffHanger2]

Please let's stay on topic. Also I don't make videos of myself on YouTube. additionally I have never said I was a he or she. I rather keep my gender private.

Here is another clip of discrimination that actually goes deep on the issue in a way that is very realistic for a suppose to comic film



When senator Kelly said, should this ''different'' folks go to school as the normal folks or not still reveal themselves, despite the fact Jean told him those that reveal themselves have been met with hate and violence and others should decide if they want segregation or not with congress clapping in support. this may be a comic film of pure fiction but where is that from in the non fiction world? try George Wallace from Alabama.


Sigh... I know some of us already know how the newer XMEN films will turn out. Likely another generic comedy comic film that wont even scratch the surface of X1 or follow the tone or story topic , but this is not the thread to project that on. let's just stick to the past tv and film that have dealt so deeply with this topic because I am getting bored of being one of the very very few persons that is coming up with various clips on how discrimination has been dealt with all from just one comic series.

it is getting more boring than discussing the themes of crime, imprisonment and policing because at least I wont just have to use Batman as my only example

Dude again it's a metaphor. No this isn't some serious cover of discrimination it's surface level theatrics.