A metaphor that still covers the issue of discrimination in a deeper way many actual black POC characters dont' do in a fictional world because stories about discrimination of any sorts are not the main focus of the POC characters. you cant also dismiss metaphor in a fictional universe if it is too intertwined with the stories.
When Marvel made Nick Fury Black in Universe 1610. It was not for giving him stories based on discrimination. it was done because Sam L Jackson always came of like a cool dude in movies. Also have you Wondered why War Machine never got a discrimination story arc in the Iron Man movies?
Lastly this is not a Metaphor, even if Magneto was not a mutant, he would still have killed those racist Nazis.
Last edited by Castle; 05-12-2021 at 06:24 PM.
So we had a poster here who says they basically tune out whenever a POC "blames white people" for all their issues. Yet I'd be willing to bet anything that they also agree that discrimination against mutants is wrong. This shows the fundamental problem with the X-Men. Most people disagree with discrimination on a conceptual level but don't see it when it's presented in reality. That's why X-Men is basic/surface level. I've seen plenty of white folks understand Magneto's motivation and see him as being in the right but not nearly as many view Killmonger the same way.
It was there, but if you blinked you'd miss it. It's when Cap saved the POWs, the Asian guy walked up and and I think Dugan said, "Oh what, we have to take everyone now?" And the Asian guy gets in his face and says, "Hey! I'm from Frenso, Ace!" It was a subtle reference to the anti-Japanese prejudice in America at the time.
Bishop has never been a major player in the movie. I agree with Darwin but I would at least acknowledge the part where Shaw says, you all will either be slaves or rise up and rule and the scene cuts to Darwin, who is black. So you get the slavery references. it is not erased.
As for Storm , in X3 she is the one person who is the most vocal about getting the cure and that is not a coincidence because she is the only black character in the show and that is Storm from the comics. I mean this is why I sort of laughed when you called X3 a bad film because X3 alone still had more about this themes than anything thing Marvel has done in current years. X3 just felt rushed but the themes were still very present.
This was Storm's reaction to the cure.
You are calling it a fantasy but please remember. Falcon and King Black Panther and Wakanda are also fantasy. they are all fantasy taking place in the same one marvel universe created by mostly the same marvel folks, so how do we judge all of them? well. ...it is down to who gave more time and forces on those themes and the answer is still X-MEN.
It's not what I said though, please stop keep misquoting me.
No one is 100% calling for stand ins because the world of fiction is already a stand in, what we are calling for is great stories that deal with this issues in a way that is convincing because that is what will make the themes matter the most. not the fictional characters skin color. Superhero's are not real. this are not biopic about Malcom X. Also if stand ins White characters had deeper stories on the issues, than that is the fault of the publisher, not the stand in characters.
Star Wars OT is another good example though not really about discrimination in a way we talk about it here but it was a better take on diversity that made it worth it or did not feel forced or woke. the original trilogy is better than the Disney trilogy because it utilised their female and poc characters a lot better thanks to their good story arcs.
The new disney trilogy never cared about giving them stories or any substance. all they wanted was to tick box a check sheet. Leia and Lando are better characters than Fin and Rey for many of the reasons Professor X and Magneto are better characters than Black Panther and Killmonger with a better take on discrimination stories in comic films as Leia and Lando did better with feminism and un-stereotypical black male.
Last edited by Castle; 05-12-2021 at 07:05 PM.
The fox movies took the brave stance of telling all their discrimination stories with white people. It’s more mature that way. Why bother to actually address social issues directly when you can just use metaphor? All the “deep” and “dark” themes without any dark people! Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!
I think you mean Storm is most vocal about not getting the cure. Anyway it still doesn't address real racism. The irony here is that your calling for more "grounded" stories and realism. But any story with black characters in the genre actually dealing with real-life racism-HARD PASS. Nah the metaphor is better like wtf? I can't even...
Did the fox movies race bend any character? no. because it was not necessary. You can't blame fox. marvel created the characters and fox just used them and if marvel had made xmen first they would not have race bent the characters either but what they would have done is even watered down the themes more, maybe even more than black panther , the movie they made with the black characters that barely touched on those themes , which even puts Black Panther in a worse place than X-MEN.
Last I checked, Killmomger Michael B Jordan who is supposed to be like Magneto is not a Nigeria/Ghanaian/Kenya/Zimbabwe actor either. He is an America black actor from new jersey.Have you heard about the Holocaust? Here’s an Irish/German actor to tell you that it was bad. It’s so deep!
Wakanda is suppose to be an African country but marvel did not use mostly African actors from the continent of Africa.
So both marvel and fox both got it wrong with casting if you want to go there, but only one did not dumbed down the themes. the holocaust was there in the film. I have asked for a similar scene in black panther that shows actual colonialism wars in good depth as the holocaust was shown in X1 and none can be found in the Black Panther movie.
Last edited by Castle; 05-12-2021 at 07:22 PM.
It didn't help how most of the focus was on White male characters
That's why it doesn't work anymore IMO. It's too safe for fragile people barely able to handle the bare minimum of actual commentary
Oh yeah, thanks, I remember that now
First of all, Killmonger *is* an American. Maybe you missed that in your deep reading of the film. Second, he wasn’t supposed to be like Magneto because mutants aren’t a suitable stand-in for black people or any other race. The mutant metaphor was always a poor substitute for actual racial issues because there’s a difference between being afraid of a person who has dark skin and being afraid of a person who can blow up a mountain by looking at it. People would accept the “mutant metaphor” back in the day because editors were too afraid to actually put black people in prominent roles in comics, and forget about trying to serve actual social commentary to a nearly completely white audience in the 60’s and 70’s. Today they can actually tell stories about black people in media, which is why the X-Men have become about something else in today’s comics. There’s more relevant social commentary in the first 2 episodes of Falcon and Winter Soldier than in the entirety of the Fox X-Men movies, because while you’re whining about themes, they’re actually speaking to issues.