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  1. #1
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    Default "The Marvels" movie and how Marvel failed Monica Rambeau

    The thread title speaks for itself and is kind of a sequel thread to my "Why didn't Marvel push Monica Rambeau" as Captain Marvel thread.

    When it comes to character transitions and multiple characters with the same name, it's amazing how the MCU has handled some of these situations more elegantly (compared with the comics). Marvel comics have totally mishandled Monica Rambeau since the 1980s. The comics completely banished Monica Rambeau, changed her code name so many times and eventually dumped her in limbo (where is she right now??).

    Considering just how few prominent women of color Marvel comics have, this was awful. The MCU already had a Captain Marvel in Carol Danvers but instead of sacrificing everyone at the alter of her, they've decided to feature Monica and Kamala Khan and renamed the movie. To be clear, I fully expect the movie to focus on Carol but the fact that Marvel changed the name of Captain Marvel 2 to The Marvels shows a certain regard for Monica that the comics never had. Monica WAS Captain Marvel before Carol Danvers, was a member of the Avengers and actually led the team! All until Mark Gruenwald decided that Captain America MUST be the bestest and greatest Avenger ever and MUST lead the team.

    Please, no one should misintepret this as another "Carol Danvers/Brie Larson" sucks thread (some people on social media are sooooooooooooooooooo obsessed with Brie Larson that I really worry about their mental states) but this is more of an indictment of just how terribly Marvel treated Monica Rambeau.
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  2. #2
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Steve actually ISN'T usually the Avengers leader. In the late 90s run, it was Wasp, in the more recent teams, it's usually Iron Man, and in the current one, it's Black Panther.
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  3. #3
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The comics completely banished Monica Rambeau, changed her code name so many times and eventually dumped her in limbo (where is she right now??).
    Preparing to re-appear in a so-called "marvel comic" with a godawful look accompanied with a godawful name.
    Considering just how few prominent women of color Marvel comics have, this was awful.
    Captain Marvel exceeded the quota of having a woman of marvel who happens to be black lead a super hero team in the 616 marvel universe.
    That quota was 1, as in the marvel character Storm. They didn't need 2 of those.

    To be clear, I fully expect the movie to focus on Carol but the fact that Marvel changed the name of Captain Marvel 2 to The Marvels shows a certain regard for Monica that the comics never had.
    The focus is on Vers, yes.

    "Captain Marvel 2" IS showing a certain regard to the very first Captain Marvel woman.

    According to the true history of marvel comics Captain Marvel 1 is Mar-Vell with the secret identity of Walter Lawson.
    In the MCU Captain Marvel 1 is Mar-Vell with the secret identity of Wendy Lawson as portrayed by Annette Bening.

    According to the true history of marvel comics Captain Marvel 2 is the very first Captain Marvel woman with the secret identity of Monica Rambeau.

    The Marvels are:
    Mary Marvel aka Mary Batson aka Carol Danvers
    Captain Marvel aka Billy Batson aka Monica Rambeau
    Captain Marvel Jr. aka Freddy Freeman aka Kamala Khan

    Please, no one should misintepret this as another "Carol Danvers/Brie Larson" sucks thread (some people on social media are sooooooooooooooooooo obsessed with Brie Larson that I really worry about their mental states)
    All submit to the glory and grandeur which is Brie Larson.
    Last edited by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear; 05-11-2021 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Together they are the mightY marvels!
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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    This is why I have no problem with the title getting changed. This is clearly a sign that Monica and Kamala aren't going to be playing second fiddle to Carol and the trio will be on equal footing.

    From the get-go we are seeing what happens when a woc is put in charge of a major franchise.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Maybe Monica will rename herself Captain Marvel, now that sharing codnames is allowed.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  6. #6
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    I'm disappointed at the idea that Carol won't get to be the star of her own sequel, but Marvel Comics certainly did fail Monica Rambeau, I'll give you that. Once Roger Stern was fired, no one wanted to use her for years, and the '90s and '00s happened to be a period where there was generally less concern over diversity in comics and other media than there was in the '80s. (Things don't always progress.) Monica didn't really re-emerge until "Nextwave," where the whole point was to use characters no one wanted to use in the regular comics.

    She might never have fully re-emerged except for the accident of her being called Captain Marvel (well, it wasn't an accident exactly, but it has nothing to do with her or her powers; she just got the title because they needed to give it to someone). When Carol took the Captain Marvel title, DeConnick and her editor decided to address the fact that Monica had used the title, and that alone may have led to her MCU stardom.
    Last edited by gurkle; 05-08-2021 at 02:40 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    This is why I have no problem with the title getting changed. This is clearly a sign that Monica and Kamala aren't going to be playing second fiddle to Carol and the trio will be on equal footing.

    From the get-go we are seeing what happens when a woc is put in charge of a major franchise.
    If they put her in charge of the Avengers a bunch of people will complain she hasn't "earned it"

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I'm disappointed at the idea that Carol won't get to be the star of her own sequel, but Marvel Comics certainly did fail Monica Rambeau, I'll give you that. Once Roger Stern was fired, no one wanted to use her for years, and the '90s and '00s happened to be a period where there was generally less concern over diversity in comics and other media than there was in the '80s. (Things don't always progress.) Monica didn't really re-emerge until "Nextwave," where the whole point was to use characters no one wanted to use in the regular comics.

    She might never have fully re-emerged except for the accident of her being called Captain Marvel (well, it wasn't an accident exactly, but it has nothing to do with her or her powers; she just got the title because they needed to give it to someone). When Carol took the Captain Marvel title, DeConnick and her editor decided to address the fact that Monica had used the title, and that alone may have led to her MCU stardom.
    Tbh, I think it's better if Monica has her own name. Idk if Carol won't be the main character. I won't jump to conclusions just yet

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    I don’t understand Marvel’s motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    I don’t understand Marvel’s motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.
    Why couldn't they push both? It shouldn't be one or the other

  10. #10
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Maybe Monica will rename herself Captain Marvel, now that sharing codnames is allowed.
    You mean in the comics? Because in the MCU, she doesn't have a codename at all yet and so it wouldn't be a rename.
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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    If they put her in charge of the Avengers a bunch of people will complain she hasn't "earned it"
    What are you talking about? Who is not getting to run the Avengers?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    What are you talking about? Who is not getting to run the Avengers?
    She led the Avengers for a time in the comics, so I'm saying if they tried that in the movies, some people would complain she doesn't deserve the position yet, because that complaint always seems to come up when a woman or PoC character is in charge, at least from what I've seen

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    I don’t understand Marvel’s motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.
    There were at least three other white people using the Capt Marvel name after Monica and before Carol.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Why couldn't they push both? It shouldn't be one or the other
    Because you are still dealing with sexism and racism.

    If we are talking movies-it's already a battle to do a movie with WOMAN as the lead. We saw Ike use Catwoman as the reason a Cap Marvel Carol and probably Black Widow movie should never be made.

    What chance did Monica have if Ike was using Catwoman as the reason for Carol & Widow?

    If we are talking comics-mainly MARVEL & DC-the resentment to black female lead books is way worst than it is to general POC and LGBTQA.

    If we exclude Moon Girl, Silencer, Goldie Vance & current Kick Azz series at Image-the majority of black female lead books don't make issue 13. Mind you Moon Girl, Goldie Vance, Silencer and Kick Azz have yet to be seen on tv or in movies. Yet all have more solo issues than Storm, Vixen, Riri and Shuri (under her name not BP).

    Monica was not going to stand a chance. Even with the gators screaming for her mainly due to the hate for Larson.

    Unless they went the OGN route and kept on going before the movie came out and kept on after it did.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Because you are still dealing with sexism and racism.

    If we are talking movies-it's already a battle to do a movie with WOMAN as the lead. We saw Ike use Catwoman as the reason a Cap Marvel Carol and probably Black Widow movie should never be made.

    What chance did Monica have if Ike was using Catwoman as the reason for Carol & Widow?

    If we are talking comics-mainly MARVEL & DC-the resentment to black female lead books is way worst than it is to general POC and LGBTQA.

    If we exclude Moon Girl, Silencer, Goldie Vance & current Kick Azz series at Image-the majority of black female lead books don't make issue 13. Mind you Moon Girl, Goldie Vance, Silencer and Kick Azz have yet to be seen on tv or in movies. Yet all have more solo issues than Storm, Vixen, Riri and Shuri (under her name not BP).

    Monica was not going to stand a chance. Even with the gators screaming for her mainly due to the hate for Larson.

    Unless they went the OGN route and kept on going before the movie came out and kept on after it did.
    I see what you mean by that. My statement was more rhetorical. Really, it's problematic how promoting diversity seems to be zero sum. And the Avengers don't have a huge number of Black heroines, although it's improving. You'd think they'd push Monica as much as they do Carol

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