Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 81
  1. #31
    Niffleheim
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    7,640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Monica was not going to stand a chance. Even with the gators screaming for her mainly due to the hate for Larson.
    Sweet Jesus! So they used Monica as a weapon to hate on Larson I wonder what the pivot will be now Marvel Studio has taken that weapon from them?

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    There is nothing wrong with Monica's power level. There is everything wrong with writers who either don't know how to write powerful characters, or are too lazy to write really powerful characters.

    For everything that Monica brings to the table, the reality is that her feats don't necessarily match what we've seen from some of Marvel's franchise characters. The versatility of her powers is also matched or surpassed by several characters. Thor by himself has a host of abilities that makes him a tough out for anyone. But did Odin stop there? Oh, no, the All-Father went and gave him Mjolnir -- because at the end of the day what these heroes are fighting for isn't a fair fight, nor do you want it to be. When you're in serious trouble, you want the deck stacked in favor of the person bringing you aid.

    Like Thor, Monica should be one of those characters whose name immediately raises the concern threshold for villains, while allaying concerns of allies and people needing their assistance. No offense to Hawkeye, Black Widow, or whomever, but when the real sh** hits the fan and the fate of the world hangs in the balance, when I call for the Avengers, don't send me some glorified athlete with more or less conventional weapons and a cool utility belt. Send me Monica mother(bleep)ing Rambeau, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Silver Surfer or someone like that. When a situation calls for an Avenger, make sure that someone worthy of the name shows up.

    If that means that writers who have a more difficult time penning powerful characters are never offered a run on Avengers, then so be it. But don't change Monica to hide their shortcomings.
    You're telling me Hawkeye and Black Widow aren't useful against alien invaders. Color me surprised!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Sweet Jesus! So they used Monica as a weapon to hate on Larson I wonder what the pivot will be now Marvel Studio has taken that weapon from them?
    Idk. They'll whine about anything.

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    16,870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Couldn't they just reduce hwr power level?
    Her power level isn't an actual problem. If anything, it's that some writers and artists don't have the imagination to use her powers in a creative way.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    16,870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    There is nothing wrong with Monica's power level. There is everything wrong with writers who either don't know how to write powerful characters, or are too lazy to write really powerful characters.

    For everything that Monica brings to the table, the reality is that her feats don't necessarily match what we've seen from some of Marvel's franchise characters. The versatility of her powers is also matched or surpassed by several characters. Thor by himself has a host of abilities that makes him a tough out for anyone. But did Odin stop there? Oh, no, the All-Father went and gave him Mjolnir -- because at the end of the day what these heroes are fighting for isn't a fair fight, nor do you want it to be. When you're in serious trouble, you want the deck stacked in favor of the person bringing you aid.

    Like Thor, Monica should be one of those characters whose name immediately raises the concern threshold for villains, while allaying concerns of allies and people needing their assistance. No offense to Hawkeye, Black Widow, or whomever, but when the real sh** hits the fan and the fate of the world hangs in the balance, when I call for the Avengers, don't send me some glorified athlete with more or less conventional weapons and a cool utility belt. Send me Monica mother(bleep)ing Rambeau, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Silver Surfer or someone like that. When a situation calls for an Avenger, make sure that someone worthy of the name shows up.

    If that means that writers who have a more difficult time penning powerful characters are never offered a run on Avengers, then so be it. But don't change Monica to hide their shortcomings.
    Yet no one has a problem when Batman shows up to fight Darkseid LOL. More seriously though, I agree with your larger point. Monica's powers are not a problem.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    I donít understand Marvelís motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.
    In universe it would be because Carol has a strong tie to both the Kree and to Mar-Vell. Monica has neither and no tie to it beyond starting out with the name.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Like Thor, Monica should be one of those characters whose name immediately raises the concern threshold for villains, while allaying concerns of allies and people needing their assistance. No offense to Hawkeye, Black Widow, or whomever, but when the real sh** hits the fan and the fate of the world hangs in the balance, when I call for the Avengers, don't send me some glorified athlete with more or less conventional weapons and a cool utility belt. Send me Monica mother(bleep)ing Rambeau, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Silver Surfer or someone like that. When a situation calls for an Avenger, make sure that someone worthy of the name shows up.
    We saw just that in Under Siege. Zemo knew how powerful she was and how she could take down the entire Masters of Evil, so used Blackout to trap her in the Darkforce dimension.

  7. #37
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    I donít understand Marvelís motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.
    I feel like Marvel decided to push Carol first and decided that she would need to be Captain Marvel second. Like, based on the fact that they were pushing Carol hard as Marvel's top female hero since around the time of House of M, it seems like they first decided that Carol needed that spot, and then decided having her feel like a legacy character and having her name start with Ms. was kind of an obstacle to the space they wanted her to occupy and gave her the Captain Marvel name.

    In general I think the idea that pushing Carol takes away from Monica is a problem when we can clearly push both. This is generally IMO something that we think about with female comic characters like, why do we need a top woman "Wonder Woman" character? Just bc DC can only be bothered to have one woman on the Justice League doesn't mean we can't have multiple women pushed at the same time. Let it come at the expense of male characters.

    Marvel has treated Monica poorly. But it's not Carol's fault. I blame Genis-Vell more than anything for stealing her superhero name, but beyond that they just stopped using this great character.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Her power level isn't an actual problem. If anything, it's that some writers and artists don't have the imagination to use her powers in a creative way.
    I agree. I just always hear how "OMG this character's too OP nerf them!" instead of using their powers in creative ways outside of punching

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    16,870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakoa View Post
    I feel like Marvel decided to push Carol first and decided that she would need to be Captain Marvel second. Like, based on the fact that they were pushing Carol hard as Marvel's top female hero since around the time of House of M, it seems like they first decided that Carol needed that spot, and then decided having her feel like a legacy character and having her name start with Ms. was kind of an obstacle to the space they wanted her to occupy and gave her the Captain Marvel name.

    In general I think the idea that pushing Carol takes away from Monica is a problem when we can clearly push both. This is generally IMO something that we think about with female comic characters like, why do we need a top woman "Wonder Woman" character? Just bc DC can only be bothered to have one woman on the Justice League doesn't mean we can't have multiple women pushed at the same time. Let it come at the expense of male characters.

    Marvel has treated Monica poorly. But it's not Carol's fault. I blame Genis-Vell more than anything for stealing her superhero name, but beyond that they just stopped using this great character.
    Except they didn't push her as "Warbird" or "Binary" first, they pushed as Ms Marvel then Capt Marvel. Of course I wasn't in the office, but I'll bet my next paycheck that trademark concerns came up in the discussion to give Carol her own series.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Couldn't they just reduce hwr power level?
    they did in her one shot as a result of her powers shorting out post her removal from Avengers. Her powers were changed from EM spectrum to something closer to manipulating kinetic energy which gave her standard flying brick abilities. Im not sure what the purpose here was, especially since it happened in a one shot, may have been deliberately to nerf her, but it did not take either in the category of getting her more use, or in the category of it even staying the status quo as later during starblast those powers were restored.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    There is nothing wrong with Monica's power level. There is everything wrong with writers who either don't know how to write powerful characters, or are too lazy to write really powerful characters.

    For everything that Monica brings to the table, the reality is that her feats don't necessarily match what we've seen from some of Marvel's franchise characters. The versatility of her powers is also matched or surpassed by several characters. Thor by himself has a host of abilities that makes him a tough out for anyone. But did Odin stop there? Oh, no, the All-Father went and gave him Mjolnir -- because at the end of the day what these heroes are fighting for isn't a fair fight, nor do you want it to be. When you're in serious trouble, you want the deck stacked in favor of the person bringing you aid.

    Like Thor, Monica should be one of those characters whose name immediately raises the concern threshold for villains, while allaying concerns of allies and people needing their assistance. No offense to Hawkeye, Black Widow, or whomever, but when the real sh** hits the fan and the fate of the world hangs in the balance, when I call for the Avengers, don't send me some glorified athlete with more or less conventional weapons and a cool utility belt. Send me Monica mother(bleep)ing Rambeau, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Silver Surfer or someone like that. When a situation calls for an Avenger, make sure that someone worthy of the name shows up.

    If that means that writers who have a more difficult time penning powerful characters are never offered a run on Avengers, then so be it. But don't change Monica to hide their shortcomings.
    The matter is of stakes. Of the names you listed sentry always had people walking on eggshells around him and became the antagonist, Blue Marvel took the job of a retiree scientist occasionally stepping in, Silver Surfer is cosmic, where I expect and want to see characters like Blue Marvel, Monica etc to usually play.

    Thor was basically the only ultra heavy hitter we saw, and even he subconsciously held back to maybe 10-30 percent of his total output and Monica even surpasses him and would be way more useful in a fight than Thor. I mean the only reason I think thor could even beat her is a simple matter of his mjolnir being able to absorb her which is one of her only vulnerability I can think of that she struggles with

    Besides I don't even want carol on the avengers team nowadays, most of these characters have outgrown all that. Just go back to Ultimates and let them be a big team if a solo isn't around.

    Or something like the Defenders who had Silver surfer and Classic Strange, along with hulk and Namor being the weakest.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    7,844

    Default

    The thing is, I don't really care so much about Monica's code name.

    The issue was the way the character has been treated. Monica was prominent female character outside of the X-men (which were few back in the day) and when Marvel wanted to promote their female heroes why was she completely overlooked? She has a fantastic powerset and has a rather interesting backstory.

    Beyond the race of the character, I don't know why Monica was treated the way she was. When I mention race, I'm not being hyperbolic...Marvel literally straightened out her Afro and lightened her skin for a while. I don't think she even has the Afro anymore (I can't remember). It's all so ridiculous....
    Black Lives Matter.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    I donít understand Marvelís motivation behind pushing Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel rather than Monica beyond conventional racism.
    Because they wanted the ďCaptain MarvelĒ title to revolve around the orginal Mar-Vell Kree mythology.
    Thatís why you had his son, daughter, a Skrull pretended to be the original kree, another young Kree, and finally Carol who got her powers from Mar-vell. But now retcon to be half kree herself.

    Monica had nothing to do with those mythos besides her name. Monica barely had her own mythos T all, since she got her powers in one accident that happened in a spider-man annual.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Why couldn't they push both? It shouldn't be one or the other
    Why didnít Marvel push Julia Carpenter and Mattie Franklin, when Jessica Drew got her big push?

    Why didnít Marvel push Sharon Ventura when Kamala got a push?

  14. #44
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The thing is, I don't really care so much about Monica's code name.

    The issue was the way the character has been treated. Monica was prominent female character outside of the X-men (which were few back in the day) and when Marvel wanted to promote their female heroes why was she completely overlooked? She has a fantastic powerset and has a rather interesting backstory.

    Beyond the race of the character, I don't know why Monica was treated the way she was. When I mention race, I'm not being hyperbolic...Marvel literally straightened out her Afro and lightened her skin for a while. I don't think she even has the Afro anymore (I can't remember). It's all so ridiculous....
    from the greg land drawn stuff yeah?
    I remember in mighty avengers 6 ewing addressed that showing monica wasn't being a good role model to black girls with that relaxed hair and set up for her hair to eventually go back to natural.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Why didn’t Marvel push Julia Carpenter and Mattie Franklin, when Jessica Drew got her big push?

    Why didn’t Marvel push Sharon Ventura when Kamala got a push?
    Idk. Although Sharon Venture isn't the most popular character anyway

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •