Is Hollywood Using Diversity To Justify Potentially Doomed Franchises?

[Castle]

More like a 1812 Grimm brothers German fairy tale but I think someone at some of the affiliated marketing departments wants to pull a quick one with fake outrage (and probably would do the film more harm then good).

If this is the actress in question:

Shes could not be a better pick IMO. She should avoid getting a tan though like she has in some of her other pictures. Its not that "skin white like snow" means literal inhuman white like Lady Death:


Thats literal skin white as snow there alright, but definitely not snow white ;-)

I was talking of the Disney film not the original. however we cannot deny that the creators of snow white did not imagine her as Caucasian. Also lady death does not look like a ''normal'' white character.

[Username taken]

I was talking of the Disney film not the original. however we cannot deny that the creators of snow white did not imagine her as Caucasian. Also lady death does not look like a ''normal'' white character.

Rachel Zegler is caucasian. Are you talking about someone else?

Although it must be pointed out that racial classification is outdated.

Even if we are going by race, latinx isn't a race.

[thwhtGuardian]

I was talking of the Disney film not the original. however we cannot deny that the creators of snow white did not imagine her as Caucasian. Also lady death does not look like a ''normal'' white character.

They imagined her as Caucasian because they were staunch German nationalists which really isn't a relevant value for today's audience. What is relevant though is the mutability of these old stories, as oral traditions they changed both from generation to generation and also from village to village with large amounts of variance building up...so why should that feature stop now?

[The_Lurk]

They imagined her as Caucasian because they were staunch German nationalists which really isn't a relevant value for today's audience. What is relevant though is the mutability of these old stories, as oral traditions they changed both from generation to generation and also from village to village with large amounts of variance building up...so why should that feature stop now?

You make it sound like its a cave painting interpreted by the tribe elder. They wrote it (with the already invented written word) 200y ago; no 5k years ago :P

The finer details do get changed all the time I guess. Language, flair of musical acts, behavior of the people. But when people go to see a middle European medieval fairy tale its not outrageous to expect it to look like one; including its characters. Thats not a fine detail anymore; thats a core element. That does not mean the actors need all to be shipped over from Germany; they just need to look the part. And Zegler in the previous posted picture does look the part IMO. That said I do expect them to have other roles in it with all kind of diverse cast and I do think it is as equally stupid as if they had a couple of white dudes in a Wakanda army build up scene. I don't really care that much for the movie (no matter the cast; not really into musicals), but the weirdly bad outrage about the actress who obviously can be a perfect fit fascinated me.

@Castle: I know that Lady D does not look like a normal white character; I took her as example for a literal "skin as white as snow" interpretation

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Instead of franchises, I think diversity could help revitalize old genres like the western or noir.

[thwhtGuardian]

You make it sound like its a cave painting interpreted by the tribe elder. They wrote it (with the already invented written word) 200y ago; no 5k years ago :P

The finer details do get changed all the time I guess. Language, flair of musical acts, behavior of the people. But when people go to see a middle European medieval fairy tale its not outrageous to expect it to look like one; including its characters. Thats not a fine detail anymore; thats a core element. That does not mean the actors need all to be shipped over from Germany; they just need to look the part. And Zegler in the previous posted picture does look the part IMO. That said I do expect them to have other roles in it with all kind of diverse cast and I do think it is as equally stupid as if they had a couple of white dudes in a Wakanda army build up scene. I don't really care that much for the movie (no matter the cast; not really into musicals), but the weirdly bad outrage about the actress who obviously can be a perfect fit fascinated me.

@Castle: I know that Lady D does not look like a normal white character; I took her as example for a literal "skin as white as snow" interpretation

It would be harder for you to be more off the mark, The Grimms didn't write Snow White, but rather cataloged it from different oral traditions which as I said changed from generation to generation and across different geographic areas. These stories were specifically collected because of their mutability, they were fascinated by how these stories grew and changed with time and location and feared that they would vanish with the coming of industrialization. The fact that they changed isn't only a core part of the stories themselves but is the reason they have survived so long so objecting to further changes is especially silly.

It's not the fact that's she's fairly light skinned that makes the outrage stupid, she could have jet black skin and it would be every bit as equally stupid.

[Powerboy]

They imagined her as Caucasian because they were staunch German nationalists which really isn't a relevant value for today's audience. What is relevant though is the mutability of these old stories, as oral traditions they changed both from generation to generation and also from village to village with large amounts of variance building up...so why should that feature stop now?

I know some would disagree but I really liked some of the "Once Upon A Time" takes on the characters. There was one episode where one character said something to one of the "evil" characters that I think defined the show and the modern take on these old characters. It was along the lines of: I've read the old stories about you where you were just the "evil" adversary. But you are nothing like those stories make you out to be. You aren't just evil 'cause I'm evil and that's what evil does. You don't see yourself as evil at all and there are real reasons, deep reasons, for everything you are and everything you've done.

[Gray Lensman]

If I can give my two cents on the initial question, the problem isn't that Hollywood is using diversity to justify failed sequels. The problem is the Hollywood is using diversity to excuse themselves from having to put in any effort into those films, thinking they can dismiss all criticism with charges of bigotry and misogyny.

The problem isn't that you redid a comedy film with an all female cast, Mr Hollywood Big Shot, it's that you did it in such a way as to dismiss the original (angering what should have been a built in fan base), and the entire cast is mugging the camera in an attempt to be the funniest one in every scene, thereby ensuring that no one is. The straight man exists in comedy for a reason, that part can be played by a woman too.

The issue isn't that the next entry into a franchise has an all female cast, it's that they were given a recycled story that would bore even with the original cast members.

It isn't enough to throw out some poorly thought out crap in the name of diversity, they deserve good movies.

Although to be fair, there is always some triggered yahoo who flips out and thinks that because someone different is doing stuff that it automatically sucks now, but one should be able to dismiss that kind of rage without lumping fair criticism in with it.

[Castle]

Quoted in agreement.

People need to stop making the assumptions that online outrage speaks for the majority of logical fair thinking people.

Fake outrage is what it is. fake outrage. it's fake. It is not a synonym for genuine concerns that society may be going down a slippery slope and the quest to help solve some problems is only creating bigger problems.

Instead of franchises, I think diversity could help revitalize old genres like the western or noir.

What??? Do you mean like Blaxploitation movies?

[thwhtGuardian]

People need to stop making the assumptions that online outrage speaks for the majority of logical fair thinking people.

Fake outrage is what it is. fake outrage. it's fake. It is not a synonym for genuine concerns that society may be going down a slippery slope and the quest to help solve some problems is only creating bigger problems.




What??? Do you mean like Blaxploitation movies?

In this case it really is fake outrage...and in most cases elsewhere as well.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

People need to stop making the assumptions that online outrage speaks for the majority of logical fair thinking people.

Fake outrage is what it is. fake outrage. it's fake. It is not a synonym for genuine concerns that society may be going down a slippery slope and the quest to help solve some problems is only creating bigger problems.




What??? Do you mean like Blaxploitation movies?

Not exactly. I just think Diversity could provide a fresh perspective for some struggling genres like Westerns or the film Noir. There's plenty of material those early genres couldn't tackle because of the eras they were created in. We in 2021 don't have those same problems.

[Username taken]

People need to stop making the assumptions that online outrage speaks for the majority of logical fair thinking people.

Fake outrage is what it is. fake outrage. it's fake. It is not a synonym for genuine concerns that society may be going down a slippery slope and the quest to help solve some problems is only creating bigger problems.




What??? Do you mean like Blaxploitation movies?

In this case, it's fake outrage because there's nothing to be outraged about.

They got a white actress to play Snow White, it's manufactured outrage. Maybe it was spread by publicists trying to drum up conversation around the movie or the anti-SJW crowd got their information completely wrong. A simple google search just revealed there's nothing to the story at all.

I mean, how can anyone look at Zegler and be "outraged" by the casting. It's totally fake.

[thwhtGuardian]

In this case, it's fake outrage because there's nothing to be outraged about.

They got a white actress to play Snow White, it's manufactured outrage. Maybe it was spread by publicists trying to drum up conversation around the movie or the anti-SJW crowd got their information completely wrong. A simple google search just revealed there's nothing to the story at all.

I mean, how can anyone look at Zegler and be "outraged" by the casting. It's totally fake.

It would still be fake even if her complexion was as dark as night as there is nothing at all to say that the actress that was chosen wasn't chosen because of her skills...and isn't that what all these nutjobs are always saying they want? No affirmative action, hire based on merit?

[WebLurker]

People need to stop making the assumptions that online outrage speaks for the majority of logical fair thinking people.

Fake outrage is what it is. fake outrage. it's fake. It is not a synonym for genuine concerns that society may be going down a slippery slope and the quest to help solve some problems is only creating bigger problems.

From what I've seen online, most people peddling in fake outrage often say stuff like that to justify themselves.

It would still be fake even if her complexion was as dark as night as there is nothing at all to say that the actress that was chosen wasn't chosen because of her skills...and isn't that what all these nutjobs are always saying they want? No affirmative action, hire based on merit?

Judging from the darker parts of the internet that I've lurked on before, the nutjobs just want things to be a white guys-only club, but saying that it's merit-based sounds better then admitting that it's just about their bigotry.

[thwhtGuardian]

From what I've seen online, most people peddling in fake outrage often say stuff like that to justify themselves.



Judging from the darker parts of the internet that I've lurked on before, the nutjobs just want things to be a white guys-only club, but saying that it's merit-based sounds better then admitting that it's just about their bigotry.

That's specifically why the outrage is fake, it's just an excuse to say biggoted stuff with a slight cover.