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  1. #16
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    Yeah, it really just depends on whether the final product is good

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Honestly whenever Hollywood race changes or diversifies a reboot, I don't have the energy to argue if it's beneficial or not anymore to diversity. I'd rather just wait to see if it's actually good.
    The track record so far does not look too good. this is because they are obsessing over the wrong thing.

    I see some already dreading Lord of the rings tv on amazon because good ol genius JRR Tolkien universe wont be celebrated for the genius high fantasy universe he created, but some are rightly scared they will take a work of a man, who wrote his stories in the 50s based on what western Europe was then and try and update it to their own version of how they think the world now is.

    now maybe that will achieve some diversity stuff in Hollywood definition of what they think diversity is, however in terms of artistic merit. the peter jackson movies will wipe the floor with the amazon series, because that was actually good just as an art form even if some things in that movie may not have aged well.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Hollywood realized that diversity sells and are trying to cash in on it. Older generations are dying and newer people are coming into power.

    However, just having a diverse cast isn't going to cut it. You still need a good story, casting, marketing and all that. As people's options increase, they will become pickier about what to watch and nobody is going to settle for something less than fulfilling.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Hollywood realized that diversity sells and are trying to cash in on it. Older generations are dying and newer people are coming into power.

    However, just having a diverse cast isn't going to cut it. You still need a good story, casting, marketing and all that. As people's options increase, they will become pickier about what to watch and nobody is going to settle for something less than fulfilling.
    That's true. But mediocre White media keep getting chances, so mediocre PoC media should too!

  5. #20
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Hollywood realized that diversity sells and are trying to cash in on it. Older generations are dying and newer people are coming into power.
    True, but just like when everyone tried to cash in on shared universes after the MCU, they don't know how to actually build that diversity. It's why we get things like race swapped characters while actual POC characters still can't sniff a big budget Hollywood movie.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    True, but just like when everyone tried to cash in on shared universes after the MCU, they don't know how to actually build that diversity. It's why we get things like race swapped characters while actual POC characters still can't sniff a big budget Hollywood movie.
    You'd think that attitude would change after Black Panther succeeded

  7. #22
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    You'd think that attitude would change after Black Panther succeeded
    You would think. I mean, we do have a couple movies of POC heroes coming, Blue Beetle and Static - but neither's made yet so I'm not giving WB brownie points until after they come through. And while I love Static from the cartoon and am glad to see Milestone come back, he's technically not a DC hero. Meaning the DCEU still won't have a movie led by a black man (ensemble movies don't count) with the exception of a race swapped Clark Kent. What does it say that your only big time black hero isn't even traditionally black? It's just sad.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    You'd think that attitude would change after Black Panther succeeded
    Everyone always learns the wrong lessons. DC sees the success of Black Panther so they look at all their black characters and....decide to race bend Superman?
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    You would think. I mean, we do have a couple movies of POC heroes coming, Blue Beetle and Static - but neither's made yet so I'm not giving WB brownie points until after they come through. And while I love Static from the cartoon and am glad to see Milestone come back, he's technically not a DC hero. Meaning the DCEU still won't have a movie led by a black man (ensemble movies don't count) with the exception of a race swapped Clark Kent. What does it say that your only big time black hero isn't even traditionally black? It's just sad.
    It is troubling. They didn't even try to bring John Stewart to thr big screen yet. And non-Black PoC heroes haven't even gotten as far as Cyborg has!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Everyone always learns the wrong lessons. DC sees the success of Black Panther so they look at all their black characters and....decide to race bend Superman?
    This is WB after all. I mean, "What if Superman was Black?" could be an interesting movie. But the answer isn't to not adapt other PoC heroes

  11. #26
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It is troubling. They didn't even try to bring John Stewart to thr big screen yet. And non-Black PoC heroes haven't even gotten as far as Cyborg has!
    Apologies to all Hal Jordan fans, but John Stewart was/is the GL they should be trying to make into a movie star. It's been what? 15 years since Justice League Unlimited ended? And it's still what people want to think of when they think of good DC? And 15 years is just the right amount of time for nostalgia to kick in and drive a franchise revival into overdrive.

    Cyborg was their only black DCEU hero, and they had to ruin that relationship with Fisher. It just feels like such a waste...

  12. #27
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    This is WB after all. I mean, "What if Superman was Black?" could be an interesting movie. But the answer isn't to not adapt other PoC heroes
    If black Superman fails because of the controversy of race bending an icon, WB could use that as an excuse to say "We'll we tried, guess black characters only sell when the MCU does it!" and not adapt POC characters that wouldn't have that built in controversy and backlash. That's a legit fear to have.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Apologies to all Hal Jordan fans, but John Stewart was/is the GL they should be trying to make into a movie star. It's been what? 15 years since Justice League Unlimited ended? And it's still what people want to think of when they think of good DC? And 15 years is just the right amount of time for nostalgia to kick in and drive a franchise revival into overdrive.

    Cyborg was their only black DCEU hero, and they had to ruin that relationship with Fisher. It just feels like such a waste...
    It is a waste. They could do a Cyborg movie featuring other Titans, and a Hal-John buddy movie! They could do so much more.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    If black Superman fails because of the controversy of race bending an icon, WB could use that as an excuse to say "We'll we tried, guess black characters only sell when the MCU does it!" and not adapt POC characters that wouldn't have that built in controversy and backlash. That's a legit fear to have.
    Yeah, despite that already being disproven, as we've discussed

  15. #30
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It is a waste. They could do a Cyborg movie featuring other Titans, and a Hal-John buddy movie! They could do so much more.
    Right? These are the easy money simple to make hard to get wrong ideas that we fans can come up with in our free time, and WB has a whole team of writers and directors who are paid to do this so they should have even more treasure trove of ideas! And yet what have they come up with? Nothing. Almost nothing, just a race bent Superman and a not-technically-a-DC Static (I love Static from the cartoon, but again, it means their only traditionally black DC superhero won't be a DC superhero! That's crazy!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, despite that already being disproven, as we've discussed
    But acknowledging it's been disproven puts the problem with their POC movies not selling on them, and of course the WB executives are perfect in every way and can't possibly be the problem...much better to find some way to put BP down as a fluke, or something only their competition has the keys to.

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