Is Hollywood Using Diversity To Justify Potentially Doomed Franchises?

[Agent Z]

I hate Cyborg. He's like the most boring black character DC has. I wish DC/WB would have put that amount of shoving him down my throat into every other black character but nope. Where's the critically acclaimed run by a big time writer? Wait there is none? Is it because no writer cares or because the guy just isn't interesting? Geoff Johns wanted the cash of nostalgic Teen Titans fans and that's why he put Cyborg in Justice League comics. End of story.


Like the BoP movie. It didn't suck because it was all girls or a property not well know it sucked because... well, actually I'm the only one who likes it.

Read the David F. Walker run from the DCYou.

[Zero Hunter]

I'm of the opinion that art should always imitate real life in some form or fashion to resonate with people so diversity is always a plus. There is nothing wrong with an entirely female Ghostbusters team or a female Doctor Who or a POC James Bond. If done correctly these should allow these franchises to reach a wider audience. The problem is studios take the lazy route and just cast some minorities in lead roles without writing a cohesive story. The movie bombs at the box office, certain self proclaimed "nerds" blame the minorities. In the end the studio does a disservice to both the fans of the franchise and the minorities they tried to profit from.

That is the thing. Now it is not just the nerds but the studios themselves. The Ghostbusters reboot was not a good film. It just wasn't. The problem is they started blaming the people who didn't like it and labeling them. "Oh if you didn't like your just a sexist!!!" No I just thought it was a subpar movie with some dumb creative choices, but they don't want to hear that. Instead of admiting they might have made some wrong choices in these movies they just start the labeling game because it is so easy to do. Same with the Star Wars sequel trilogy. If you didn't like your a racist and sexist. Again no they were just very poorly thought out movies with massive plots holes and very dumb ideas that made no sense in the established rules of the universe.

Don't get me wrong there ARE some very sexist and racist assholes out there, and they are garbage people. The problem is the studios and the people who like these new directions because it pushes their personal agendas lump everyone who dislikes something into the extreme minority group labeleing anyone who dares not like this product as sexist or racist. All that does is create more hatred because the people who just didn't like the movie get pissed being grouped in with the extremists so they start attacking back on the agenda pushers.

[Vakanai]

At least Harley has a fanbase. Who's clamoring for all thr other nobodies from SS?

Nobody - why do you think they had Will Smith to play Deadshot last time? Or have James Gunn directing the new one? Or that Robbie's Harley is still so prevalent? Because there's no huge call for this property from the GA.
I think SS will do well, pandemic not withstanding...but it doesn't make much sense that WB is looking at this franchise as one of their huge tentpoles over bigger superhero names. Even mid-tier guys. I'm a Harley fan, a big one, but she shouldn't be the face of three films and counting before someone like Vixen or Black Lightning gets their first picture.

[Vakanai]

It sounds like you're saying that GL is the Hal Jordan Show in all its facets, which is kinda the opposite of John being popular?

Not really. It's like New Coke - just because it's the version the company is pushing out doesn't mean it's the most popular version for consumers. I think some older more entrenched guys at DC like Didio loved the silver age heroes above all others and had a lot of input when telling WB who should get the toons and the films, even if that's not reflective of who the wider audience would prefer to see. Push/content =//= popularity. It's the Hal Jordan show because those who were in charge made it so.

I like it, too.

I liked BoP as well.

[WebLurker]

Not really. It's like New Coke - just because it's the version the company is pushing out doesn't mean it's the most popular version for consumers. I think some older more entrenched guys at DC like Didio loved the silver age heroes above all others and had a lot of input when telling WB who should get the toons and the films, even if that's not reflective of who the wider audience would prefer to see. Push/content =//= popularity. It's the Hal Jordan show because those who were in charge made it so.

Okay. Wonder if other characters will get the push down the road?

[CosmiComic]

That is the thing. Now it is not just the nerds but the studios themselves. The Ghostbusters reboot was not a good film. It just wasn't. The problem is they started blaming the people who didn't like it and labeling them. "Oh if you didn't like your just a sexist!!!" No I just thought it was a subpar movie with some dumb creative choices, but they don't want to hear that. Instead of admiting they might have made some wrong choices in these movies they just start the labeling game because it is so easy to do. Same with the Star Wars sequel trilogy. If you didn't like your a racist and sexist. Again no they were just very poorly thought out movies with massive plots holes and very dumb ideas that made no sense in the established rules of the universe.

Don't get me wrong there ARE some very sexist and racist assholes out there, and they are garbage people. The problem is the studios and the people who like these new directions because it pushes their personal agendas lump everyone who dislikes something into the extreme minority group labeleing anyone who dares not like this product as sexist or racist. All that does is create more hatred because the people who just didn't like the movie get pissed being grouped in with the extremists so they start attacking back on the agenda pushers.

Of course not everyone liked it. I didn't. But it was getting bashed due to sexist reasons before it even came out. Same with Captain Marvel.

Nobody - why do you think they had Will Smith to play Deadshot last time? Or have James Gunn directing the new one? Or that Robbie's Harley is still so prevalent? Because there's no huge call for this property from the GA.
I think SS will do well, pandemic not withstanding...but it doesn't make much sense that WB is looking at this franchise as one of their huge tentpoles over bigger superhero names. Even mid-tier guys. I'm a Harley fan, a big one, but she shouldn't be the face of three films and counting before someone like Vixen or Black Lightning gets their first picture.

Another poster pointed out to me that these characters do have fans, so I shouldn't have said "nobody is looking forward to them." And to be fair, Harley is probably more well known than either of those two, although that's probably due to her being pushed more in comics and other media. On the other hand, John has more lore than Harley, yet doesn't seem to be getting a film yet

[SiegePerilous02]

I liked the BOP film a lot as its own thing. I just think it was a lousy adaptation/representation of the BOP property. It would have been better served just presenting it as it ended up being: a Harley solo/ensemble guest starring some characters who happen to be from the BOP, but drop the BOP name altogether. it could have served as a good "back door pilot" for BOP, but as it stands the one movie we got with that team name in the title wasn't really about the iconic group (Babs being missing as either Batgirl or Oracle leaves a massive hole) and they will likely not be appearing again any time soon. Meanwhile, Harley will of course be showing up again.

Dinah and Helena were pretty well served though for what we got, IMO

Not really. It's like New Coke - just because it's the version the company is pushing out doesn't mean it's the most popular version for consumers. I think some older more entrenched guys at DC like Didio loved the silver age heroes above all others and had a lot of input when telling WB who should get the toons and the films, even if that's not reflective of who the wider audience would prefer to see. Push/content =//= popularity. It's the Hal Jordan show because those who were in charge made it so.

In fairness, Hal had the GL cartoon which reviewed well and did pretty well in ratings. The reason it was cancelled had to do with low toy sales from the movie. So I think overall the impact of JL/U and the crash and burn of the live action movie puts things in John's favor and their "it must ONLY be Hal" mentality shot them in the foot. Because going all in on that didn't help when they made a shitty movie that Hal fans hated just as much (if not more so) than anyone else. But while the GA really doesn't have any interest in the "Silver Age guys only" mentality, they'd also get onboard with seeing them in stories if they are done well (like GL:TAS).

Again, I have to lament the lack of care going into a GL film which could have benefited multiple characters.

[Zero Hunter]

I will never understand why that buddy cop version of Green Lantern Corps never happened. It just made so much sense with using both Hal and John with one as the vet and the other as the rookie. It was one of the best ideas DC had going when they kept throwing out project after project and it seemed like the one most people were most excited for. Why it just got shelved and forgotten is beyond me.

[CosmiComic]

I will never understand why that buddy cop version of Green Lantern Corps never happened. It just made so much sense with using both Hal and John with one as the vet and the other as the rookie. It was one of the best ideas DC had going when they kept throwing out project after project and it seemed like the one most people were most excited for. Why it just got shelved and forgotten is beyond me.

Because DC doesn't know what it's doing. Seems like a good idea to me.

[Vakanai]

Okay. Wonder if other characters will get the push down the road?

Depends on what the current head/s of DC want and who their favorite characters are I guess. Definitely some characters will be pushed, but the question is which ones?

Another poster pointed out to me that these characters do have fans, so I shouldn't have said "nobody is looking forward to them." And to be fair, Harley is probably more well known than either of those two, although that's probably due to her being pushed more in comics and other media. On the other hand, John has more lore than Harley, yet doesn't seem to be getting a film yet

True. Everyone is somebody's favorite.
Still, WB is dropping the ball picking which properties to put over others. Especially on the POC and LGBTQ front.

In fairness, Hal had the GL cartoon which reviewed well and did pretty well in ratings. The reason it was cancelled had to do with low toy sales from the movie. So I think overall the impact of JL/U and the crash and burn of the live action movie puts things in John's favor and their "it must ONLY be Hal" mentality shot them in the foot. Because going all in on that didn't help when they made a shitty movie that Hal fans hated just as much (if not more so) than anyone else. But while the GA really doesn't have any interest in the "Silver Age guys only" mentality, they'd also get onboard with seeing them in stories if they are done well (like GL:TAS).

Again, I have to lament the lack of care going into a GL film which could have benefited multiple characters.

True, GL:TAS was a good series (although I only caught the tail end). It's a shame it was cancelled for reasons that had nothing to do with the quality of the show.
GL could support both John and Hal out there. Who knows, maybe that will happen. But right now it's a shame how WB is fumbling with it. Here's hoping the new show is good.

[CosmiComic]

Depends on what the current head/s of DC want and who their favorite characters are I guess. Definitely some characters will be pushed, but the question is which ones?

True. Everyone is somebody's favorite.
Still, WB is dropping the ball picking which properties to put over others. Especially on the POC and LGBTQ front.

I agree on that

True, GL:TAS was a good series (although I only caught the tail end). It's a shame it was cancelled for reasons that had nothing to do with the quality of the show.
GL could support both John and Hal out there. Who knows, maybe that will happen. But right now it's a shame how WB is fumbling with it. Here's hoping the new show is good.

[WebLurker]

Of course not everyone liked it. I didn't. But it was getting bashed due to sexist reasons before it even came out. Same with Captain Marvel.

Remember that. Also remember some of those people trying to claim that they were never sexist and that it was all just because the movie was bad after the fact (eps. with Ghostbusters, which did have its issues that could be used as a smokescreen against the bigotry).

[ChrisIII]

Depends how much leeway within the box. Case in point Jurassic Park; started as one thing (people trapped on dinosaur islands) and is now something else (dinosaurs and cloning tech are now becoming part of our everyday world, which will change everything).

The original novel pretty much both started and ended with Dinosaurs (Compies and some Raptors) already raising havoc on the mainland; the park inspection tour is actually sort of a bit more of a smokescreen than in the movie, so the danger of that happening has been part of the franchise since the beginning but didn't become much of a threat until the second movie.

[AnakinFlair]

Nobody - why do you think they had Will Smith to play Deadshot last time? Or have James Gunn directing the new one? Or that Robbie's Harley is still so prevalent? Because there's no huge call for this property from the GA.
I think SS will do well, pandemic not withstanding...but it doesn't make much sense that WB is looking at this franchise as one of their huge tentpoles over bigger superhero names. Even mid-tier guys. I'm a Harley fan, a big one, but she shouldn't be the face of three films and counting before someone like Vixen or Black Lightning gets their first picture.

It makes perfect sense to me. WB saw what Guardians of the Galaxy- a lesser known property with characters many of the general audience had never heard of- did at the box office, and they decided to do the same thing. Par for the course for DC and WB.

I liked BoP as well.

As did I. The only thing I ended up not liking was what they did with Cassandra Cain, so I just called her Jane Doe in my mind.

[CosmiComic]

Remember that. Also remember some of those people trying to claim that they were never sexist and that it was all just because the movie was bad after the fact (eps. with Ghostbusters, which did have its issues that could be used as a smokescreen against the bigotry).

The sexism always seems to come out before the movie does yet the sexists act like they're "objective" and "victims" of cancel culture, despite trying to "cancel" these movies themselves. Some people, like me, can manage to articulate our criticisms without sexism. These morons can't.