Is Hollywood Using Diversity To Justify Potentially Doomed Franchises?

[CosmiComic]

Can we please not turn this into another stealth "the MCU sucks" thread? It's getting so old.

I think that's his MO

[godisawesome]

I think Castle’s Anti-MCU rants are the counterpart to my “The Last Jedi is accidentally and fatally sexist and racist” rants...

Well if everybody is going to throw fits at the skin color or sexual orientation of the leads-we can't discuss anything else.

If Leslie Jones is the only person targeted for Ghostbuster hate-I don't want to hear about plot or pacing or being remembered.
Same with Jordan in Fantastic Four.
Same with Boyega in Star Wars.

I want to know why only POC were targeted? And so many folks went with it.

Put a POC as the lead and here comes the complaints before it comes out.

Who cares about artistically nonsense. When Forrest Gump and others got made-how many POC lead projects could not get pitched?

How many POC could not try out for role X? How many POC got passed over for roles because Hollywood had to pander to a certain demo?


Until the trolls who hate anything POC related are taken out of the picture-we will struggle to have an honest conversation about issues in movies.

Fantastic Four was not a perfect movie by ANY means. It should NOT have been used as a rallying call to end Michael B Jordan's career. Yet he has done better the all of his co-stars.

One of the best warning signs that someone isn’t arguing in good faith is when their criticism reaches full bore long before the film itself is actually released... particularly if it immediately hones in on women and minorities... and remains almost exclusively there.

Like, I’ve never taken pre-release criticism of Rey, Finn, Adonis Creed, Black Canary, the new Ghostbusters, or even the new Black Superman seriously if all it cares about is the diversity.

But that’s not just because it doesn’t fit morality or ideals, but because it often turns out to be toothless, impotent, and meaningless when quality films and performances actually come out. If someone has a problem with the Rocky movies focusing on the black Creed family... they just have bad taste at best, and are stupidly racist at worst. It’s the lesser films that fall victim to “racist smearing” - because they’re not of good enough quality to avoid most of the criticism, shitty, narcissistic whining about diversity can sneak in and become part of the films reputation in a bit of fraud.

Of course, part of the issue that the Star Wars ST had is that it *does* feel like the quality performances and support TFA had was “betrayed” when TLJ reframed the story around Kylo Ren, and some defenders of the film wound up accusing Rey and Finn fans of being racist and sexist while supporting a film that was de-emphasizing the black guy and undermining its featured heroine in a sexist way.

Reylos going after John Boyega in a racist manner is just freaking stupid, and I think exposed some of the supposedly “less malignant” white privelge that TLJ encoded onto the ST.

[CosmiComic]

Reylo was stupid as a whole

[Castle]

I think Castle’s Anti-MCU rants are the counterpart to my “The Last Jedi is accidentally and fatally sexist and racist” rants...
.

Can we please not turn this into another stealth "the MCU sucks" thread? It's getting so old.

Once again, some ignore my commentary to jump to wrong conclusions and say I am bashing. I did not bash the MCU any more than I have bashed Star Wars sequel trilogy, Men in Black, Terminator Dark Fate , Wonder Woman and Ghostbusters. I gave what is an honest obvious standing of the state of all this ''diverse'' movies backed up with Hollywood's own inconsistency and logical outcomes.

It is true that before Black Panther, no other comic film has been nominated for best picture even if from a film making place, many comic films should have , if you are going to nominate black panther. also why was the movie hyped so much for having the first black comic book lead, when that was not correct.

If black panther had come out in 2000 or 2005, the diversity focused angle would not have been relevant. want another proof of it? Blade and Hancock are proof of it. Also I have watched the Oscars for years before Oscars so white that made the Oscars start to go down a very wrong part, in 2005 the best actor and supporting actors wins were won by Morgan Freeman and Jamie Foxx and no one made a big deal about it that they were black actors because back then, the diversity topic in movies and films had not taken a different wrong turn.

Captain marvel is a blah movie. nothing stands out in that film. not even the leading actress. This is not Angelina Jolie doing Tomb Raider, which were not so great movies but films that still worked and were enjoyable because the actress is so charming with a strong sex appeal that attracts both men and women. many critics had to bleed hands to say anything decent about Captain Marvel and many mcu fans will tell you, it was just a prelude to Endgame, it is by no means high art. and I cant say it was fun either like other films such as Ant Man and GOTG because the female character is barely present on screen.

We take that to account as my own opinion as person who studies films but also take the fact and truth that Hollywood does not have a history of succeeding with even average female comic book or action films both critically and commercially, so I don't see how captain marvel would have succeeded in a pre diversity era or pre MCU well oiled machine era. because history has factually shown 97% all female comic films and action fail, with only a few receptions like Kill Bill and that is because Quentin Tarantino is a genius and he has a reputation that can guarantee a movie succeeds.

In fact this issue has been disused before on another thread I made months back about female comic and action films and diversity. So I was already ahead on this topic. No one said, I was bashing anything.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...rspective-only
FEMALE ACTION MOVIES FROM A MALES'S PERSPECTIVE ONLY


it's funny how I said, the reality also is that Wonder Woman 2017 would not even have made over 500m in the early 2000s. which in today's money is 800m that the movie did because the fact is that no Batman film was making that amount of movie pre 2008 and Batman has been DC biggest draw, so wonder woman doing that was always going to be rare but no one said I was bashing DCU because that is a quite logical point, backed up by Batman own factual box office record before the Dark Knight. His highest grossing film back then was Batman 1989 with 460 million .

DC had also already rebooted Superman after Batman Begins with Superman Returns that made 370 million and all these films had good artistic reviews at time when comic films had to be less action driven and fun driven, so the idea or probability that a Wonder Woman film would have even done 500 million 15-20 years ago is far fetched. In fact, I think it would have been nearly impossible for a Wonder Woman movie to gross more than a Batman and Superman film in 2000-2015 era and this does not mean I am bashing Wonder Woman, I am just been a realist because she is a female character.

Please next time some need to read my break down commentary, people should not just ignore that and say , it is bashing with no substance reply to me.

[WebLurker]

Once again, some ignore my commentary to jump to wrong conclusions and say I am bashing.

No, we just have good reading comprehension. Look, you want to indulge your MCU hate, you probably should make your own thread for it, where you can do it in peace. Just saying.

[skyvolt2000]

I think Castle’s Anti-MCU rants are the counterpart to my “The Last Jedi is accidentally and fatally sexist and racist” rants...

One of the best warning signs that someone isn’t arguing in good faith is when their criticism reaches full bore long before the film itself is actually released... particularly if it immediately hones in on women and minorities... and remains almost exclusively there.

YES YES YES

I don't have an issue after it's out and someone saw it. Just let it come out and let everybody judge it versus what we have seen in the past.

[skyvolt2000]

Once again, some ignore my commentary to jump to wrong conclusions and say I am bashing. I did not bash the MCU any more than I have bashed Star Wars sequel trilogy, Men in Black, Terminator Dark Fate , Wonder Woman and Ghostbusters. I gave what is an honest obvious standing of the state of all this ''diverse'' movies backed up with Hollywood's own inconsistency and logical outcomes.

If black panther had come out in 2000 or 2005, the diversity focused angle would not have been relevant. want another proof of it? Blade and Hancock are proof of it. Also I have watched the Oscars for years before Oscars so white that made the Oscars start to go down a very wrong part, in 2005 the best actor and supporting actors wins were won by Morgan Freeman and Jamie Foxx and no one made a big deal about it that they were black actors because back then, the diversity topic in movies and films had not taken a different wrong turn.

Yes you do bash Marvel way too much.

Now you ask why Black Panther got Oscar nods versus Blade or Hancock.

Who were the folks doing the nominations back when Blade or Batman or Hancock came out?

Remember the Oscars cleared out a LOT of folks who have or had votes in nominations.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...ominees-chosen

To become one of the approximately 8000 voting members of the Academy, you'd better be in the business. Aside from requiring that each member has "achieved distinction in the motion picture arts and sciences" in their respective fields, candidates must also meet quantitative standards. Writers, producers, and directors must have at least two screen credits to their names, while actors must have scripted roles in at least three films. Candidates in the technical branches—like art directors or visual effects supervisors—must be active in their fields for a certain number of years (just how many varies based on the particular area of expertise).

If wannabe Academy members don't have the necessary credentials, they can also find two or more current members to officially sponsor them; their membership is then either approved or denied by an Academy committee and its Board of Governors. But the easiest route to Academy membership is simply to get nominated: Those who were nominated for or won an Oscar the previous year and are not currently a member are automatically considered.

Now how many POC would that include? How many women? How many LGBTQA? How comic book nerds? Back then.

What happen is they started going after more diverse voices. So the folks who would normally ignore comic films were either gone or over ruled in nominations.


Also no one cares Morgan or Denzel or Jaime winning Oscars back then. They don't want it to be a blue moon nomination-they want it to be on a consistent basis. When warranted. Not what we have seen of movies no one heard of or come out last minute with flavor of the month white film that already has awards before coming out on CHristmas.

[Castle]

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/d...er-1235002439/

Rachel Zegler to play Snow White. she is of polish and Colombian decent , although she does look very latina. people are already melting down on twitter about the casting.

Snow White's skin was supposed to be as white as snow.

Rachel from what I can see, does not have snow white skin so what will happen? will they go all Zoe Saldana Nina Simone again. where they had to darken the skin of a light skinned black woman , only this time whiten the skin more of Rachel.

Halle Bailey as Littlemaid is fine because the character's race was not really relevant and she is a mermaid anyway, from the sea. so her appearance could look like anything because sea creatures have different looks and appearances.

the snow white casting to me is the problem with Hollywood's fake diversity push.

No offence but this casting is wrong. Disney should have just cast a very white Caucasian pale looking actress as once done with Lilly Collins who played the role like 10 years ago.

[thwhtGuardian]

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/d...er-1235002439/

Rachel Zegler to play Snow White. she is of polish and Colombian decent , although she does look very latina. people are already melting down on twitter about the casting.

Snow White's skin was supposed to be as white as snow.

Rachel from what I can see, does not have snow white skin so what will happen? will they go all Zoe Saldana Nina Simone again. where they had to darken the skin of a light skinned black woman , only this time whiten the skin more of Rachel.

Halle Bailey as Littlemaid is fine because the character's race was not really relevant and she is a mermaid anyway, from the sea. so her appearance could look like anything because sea creatures have different looks and appearances.

the snow white casting to me is the problem with Hollywood's fake diversity push.

No offence but this casting is wrong. Disney should have just cast a very white Caucasian pale looking actress as once done with Lilly Collins who played the role like 10 years ago.

Apparently she has an amazing singing voice and it's going to be a musical so talent trumps look...which is how it should be.

[Castle]

Apparently she has an amazing singing voice and it's going to be a musical so talent trumps look...which is how it should be.

that's not enough since the physical appearance of the character is very important to the story. the story makes it clear that her skin is as white as snow. she has to look the part completely.

I am person of color, however we can't spin this one at all, this thing is just a real woke casting and it will likely flop

[thwhtGuardian]

that's not enough since the physical appearance of the character is very important to the story. the story makes it clear that her skin is as white as snow. she has to look the part completely.

I am person of color, however we can't spin this one at all, this thing is just a real woke casting and it will likely flop

It definitely is enough, she's young, beautiful and talented those should be the qualifications, period. And it's not as if it hasn't been done before; there have been women of color playing Snow White on stage for decades and it wasn't "woke" then...it was just the actress winning on her merits....and that's the way it should be.

[Timothy Hunter]

Hollywood is going to try to justify those potentially doomed franchises no matter what.

[WebLurker]

that's not enough since the physical appearance of the character is very important to the story. the story makes it clear that her skin is as white as snow. she has to look the part completely.

No, the important plot point is that she's attractive enough that her vain stepmother feels threatened by her. The actress doesn't need to look all pasty pale to accomplish that.

I am person of color, however we can't spin this one at all, this thing is just a real woke casting and it will likely flop

Yeah, since the Disney remakes almost always flop, no matter how bad the reviews are.

[Rincewind]

It definitely is enough, she's young, beautiful and talented those should be the qualifications, period. And it's not as if it hasn't been done before; there have been women of color playing Snow White on stage for decades and it wasn't "woke" then...it was just the actress winning on her merits....and that's the way it should be.

As long as she can sing. Emma Watson looked an exact match for Belle, but her singing brought down the whole movie. A skilled singer is needed for the movie to work.

[Tofali]

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/d...er-1235002439/

Rachel Zegler to play Snow White. she is of polish and Colombian decent , although she does look very latina. people are already melting down on twitter about the casting.

Snow White's skin was supposed to be as white as snow.

Rachel from what I can see, does not have snow white skin so what will happen? will they go all Zoe Saldana Nina Simone again. where they had to darken the skin of a light skinned black woman , only this time whiten the skin more of Rachel.

Halle Bailey as Littlemaid is fine because the character's race was not really relevant and she is a mermaid anyway, from the sea. so her appearance could look like anything because sea creatures have different looks and appearances.

the snow white casting to me is the problem with Hollywood's fake diversity push.

No offence but this casting is wrong. Disney should have just cast a very white Caucasian pale looking actress as once done with Lilly Collins who played the role like 10 years ago.

You're using the wrong argument IF you want to follow the train of thought that the article was peddling that "Hollywood is using Diversity to justify potential doomed franchise -which in this case is Snow White the least favorite Disney Princess in the whole line then I would agree.