Is Hollywood Using Diversity To Justify Potentially Doomed Franchises?

[CosmiComic]

It makes perfect sense to me. WB saw what Guardians of the Galaxy- a lesser known property with characters many of the general audience had never heard of- did at the box office, and they decided to do the same thing. Par for the course for DC and WB.




As did I. The only thing I ended up not liking was what they did with Cassandra Cain, so I just called her Jane Doe in my mind.

They already had a potential GoG, it's called Green Lantern, but they didn't bother doing anything with it after failing the first time, at least until now

[Vakanai]

It makes perfect sense to me. WB saw what Guardians of the Galaxy- a lesser known property with characters many of the general audience had never heard of- did at the box office, and they decided to do the same thing. Par for the course for DC and WB.

Except that SS isn't really their GotG team. If anything, I'd give that title to Doom Patrol. Maybe the Outsiders. That's what I mean, WB is so out of touch with their DC properties even when their just chasing after Marvel they can't figure out their own DC analogues to them.

As did I. The only thing I ended up not liking was what they did with Cassandra Cain, so I just called her Jane Doe in my mind.

I don't have to change her name in my mind - she's still Cassandra Cain, that is her name - she's just not that Cassandra Cain. It's an unrelated character who by coincidence shares the name with another character. It happens in the real world.

[Vakanai]

Remember that. Also remember some of those people trying to claim that they were never sexist and that it was all just because the movie was bad after the fact (eps. with Ghostbusters, which did have its issues that could be used as a smokescreen against the bigotry).

I didn't mind when I heard GB was going to be an all women team - that could work, sure. No, where they lost me was when they said it was going to be a reboot. Look, you can reboot superheroes, James Bond, certain other franchises that've had a long history of changing actors. You can't reboot Ghostbusters. My interest went from "must see" to "never gonna see". I remember telling my mom that it was going to be a reboot and she lost all interest too.

On the flip side, I actually have interest in and plan to see Afterlife - because it's continuing the story!

[CosmiComic]

Rebooting wasn't the problem. Doing the sane basic story was the problem with Ghostbusters

[Vakanai]

Rebooting wasn't the problem. Doing the sane basic story was the problem with Ghostbusters

Disagree - I haven't even seen it to know what the story is because it being a reboot ticked me off so much. I can't be alone in that. A lot of people never watched this movie, that's why it didn't do well in theaters. Some of it may have been reviews, some of it because of the misogyny and controversy, but some of it was just a lack of interest. And it being a reboot contributed to that disinterest.

[CosmiComic]

Disagree - I haven't even seen it to know what the story is because it being a reboot ticked me off so much. I can't be alone in that. A lot of people never watched this movie, that's why it didn't do well in theaters. Some of it may have been reviews, some of it because of the misogyny and controversy, but some of it was just a lack of interest. And it being a reboot contributed to that disinterest.

Ok. I would've liked a continuation, but I thought a reboot would've been ok had the plot not basically been a poor rehash of the first movie. And if any of the actresses were given actually funny dialogue. Chris Hemsworth seemed to get most of the laughs

[Wildling]

Superman...they consider Superman outdated and past-his-prime as a property.

From other posts from that author on the subject, he's talking about how looking at the receipts Superman hasn't had a bonafide blockbuster in decades (Man of Steel IIRC didn't lose the studio money at the time but we all know what the reception to that one ultimately led to) and compares him to MCU Hulk, who as a character is fine to keep appearing in movies but doesn't get solo movies anymore.

Not to say I can't imagine a great Superman movie being made (if they can use someone like Brainiac or Mxyzptlk for once instead of yet another Luthor I'm automatically in), but the concern is if general audiences would be too disinterested by then to give it a try. If that Superman happens to be black, that's just going to be extra crap on the resulting media coverage.

[Vakanai]

From other posts from that author on the subject, he's talking about how looking at the receipts Superman hasn't had a bonafide blockbuster in decades (Man of Steel IIRC didn't lose the studio money at the time but we all know what the reception to that one ultimately led to) and compares him to MCU Hulk, who as a character is fine to keep appearing in movies but doesn't get solo movies anymore.

Not to say I can't imagine a great Superman movie being made (if they can use someone like Brainiac or Mxyzptlk for once instead of yet another Luthor I'm automatically in), but the concern is if general audiences would be too disinterested by then to give it a try. If that Superman happens to be black, that's just going to be extra crap on the resulting media coverage.

Although in Hulk's case doesn't Universal still own some of the film rights or distribution rights or something?

And I don't think it's the character's fault, or a disinterest from the audience - it's that the people in charge of making these films fundamentally don't get the character and thus can't make a good movie with him. There's just something about Superman that doesn't click with the WB execs, so they make movies that can't click with audiences.
If Marvel/Disney had Superman? They'd make a billion dollar Superman movie easy. And I'm talking outside of the MCU stuff and hype - I just feel they get Superman's type of character better. He's basically Captain America with Captain Marvel's power set, of course they'd do better with him, they can understand that type of hero. But to WB it's just a mystery they can't crack, and rather than blame themselves for not getting his appeal they just blame him.

[CosmiComic]

Brainiac, in a live action movie, that's unpossible!

[Wildling]

Brainiac, in a live action movie, that's unpossible!

Don't tell me I missed him!

[CosmiComic]

Don't tell me I missed him!

Haha, no, I'm just making a jab at DC for not adapting him already

[Sutekh]

Brainiac, in a live action movie, that's unpossible!

Ha. I know. I can just imagine these execs in an office somewhere. "Huh, what would fans of Superman, who can fly and carry loaded oil tankers and shoot sun-intensity heat blasts and move at many times the speed of sound, want to see in their big climactic villainous showdown? Ooh, how about that bald rich human dude with no super-powers we used in the last seventeen appearances? That sounds fresh and original!"

Death of Superman, my butt. There needs to be a Death of Lex Luthor, and he needs to stay dead for at least a couple of years, so some other villains can get a word in edgewise.

[CosmiComic]

Ha. I know. I can just imagine these execs in an office somewhere. "Huh, what would fans of Superman, who can fly and carry loaded oil tankers and shoot sun-intensity heat blasts and move at many times the speed of sound, want to see in their big climactic villainous showdown? Ooh, how about that bald rich human dude with no super-powers we used in the last seventeen appearances? That sounds fresh and original!"

Death of Superman, my butt. There needs to be a Death of Lex Luthor, and he needs to stay dead for at least a couple of years, so some other villains can get a word in edgewise.

I would've even liked Death of Superman had it been properly built up, with a real Doomsday.

I like al

I like Lex, but I would like to see Brainiac in the DCEU

[Powerboy]

Although in Hulk's case doesn't Universal still own some of the film rights or distribution rights or something?

And I don't think it's the character's fault, or a disinterest from the audience - it's that the people in charge of making these films fundamentally don't get the character and thus can't make a good movie with him. There's just something about Superman that doesn't click with the WB execs, so they make movies that can't click with audiences.
If Marvel/Disney had Superman? They'd make a billion dollar Superman movie easy. And I'm talking outside of the MCU stuff and hype - I just feel they get Superman's type of character better. He's basically Captain America with Captain Marvel's power set, of course they'd do better with him, they can understand that type of hero. But to WB it's just a mystery they can't crack, and rather than blame themselves for not getting his appeal they just blame him.

Exactly. Marvel gets that an audience will respond positively to a character that has a positive attitude and is basically a hero. DC sits around wondering how they can make Superman "relevant" and a character people will care about. They don't get it. Try presenting him as what he already is and was.

The problem is that DC made a mistake. They looked at the niche audience of comic book readers who have stuck around because they like dark and depressing. The legions of comic readers who don't like that mostly walked away long ago. So, by default, of course that's what most comic readers seem to want.

Marvel realized there is a vastly greater audience out there that would respond to something closer to what comic books once were and in a medium, movies and television, that don't have the distribution problems of comics and can readily reach that greater audience.

So, yes, Marvel doing a Superman movie would most likely be the Superman people want to see and be done right. As you said, the personality of MCU Captain America and the power level of MCU Captain Marvel.

[CosmiComic]

Exactly. Marvel gets that an audience will respond positively to a character that has a positive attitude and is basically a hero. DC sits around wondering how they can make Superman "relevant" and a character people will care about. They don't get it. Try presenting him as what he already is and was.

The problem is that DC made a mistake. They looked at the niche audience of comic book readers who have stuck around because they like dark and depressing. The legions of comic readers who don't like that mostly walked away long ago. So, by default, of course that's what most comic readers seem to want.

Marvel realized there is a vastly greater audience out there that would respond to something closer to what comic books once were and in a medium, movies and television, that don't have the distribution problems of comics and can readily reach that greater audience.

So, yes, Marvel doing a Superman movie would most likely be the Superman people want to see and be done right. As you said, the personality of MCU Captain America and the power level of MCU Captain Marvel.

Dark and depressing isn't even bad depending on the subject matter. It has its place when dealing with heavier or more intense themes. The Snyderverse problem IMO was making stuff dark and depressing when it had no need to be. Although I didn't even JL was depressing or gritty, just literally too dark to see!