Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 154
  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    376

    Post How the MCU did dirty with Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne

    I feel like being the founder Avengers member in the comics and even Janet came up the name of the "Avengers". It feel frustration to see how the MCU treat them like a background/retire characters. Moreover with the annoucement of "Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania". I pretty sure they are alos only focus much with Scott lang and Hope. Which is sucked for the casual fans. The same problem happen for Monica Rambeau at the other thread, since she is the first black woman to take the mantle of "Captain Marvel".

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,314

    Default

    No argument there. Of all the "classic Avengers" characters who were the core of the team in the '60s (like Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Black Panther), Hank and Jan are the least recognizable in the MCU.

    The sad thing is the idea of making Hank and Jan the heroes of an earlier time period has a lot of potential. If only we got an Ant-Man Wasp movie set in the past, followed by a movie where the mantle is passed to Scott and Hope. But Edgar Wright signed on to do Scott's story, and Hank and Jan wound up becoming collateral damage of the delays of that movie.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,418

    Default

    I don't disagree on the main premise. Jan is the first female Avenger yet barely got anything to do yet.

    Idk if it's the same with Monica though. Technically she's from the same generation of heroes as Scott, while Carol is closer to that of Hank and Jan.

    Anyway, they still could've had a younger Hank and Jan in the first Ant-Man, ideally in phase 1, and Scott in ant-Man 2.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    8,455

    Default

    Hank and Jan should have been in Avengers from day 1, and they should have been the superheroes featured in Ant-Man and the Wasp.

    While I am on it, I might as well get my other peeves out: Much as I like her, Black Widow got way too much air time. Quicksilver should be alive and well with the Avengers.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,703

    Default

    Yes, this is a regret and a stinging one at that. I have a very large and soft spot for my female characters. Jan is nearly at the top of that.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  6. #6
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,834

    Default

    I would have love to see a scene with Hulk, Antman, Ironman, Wasp ,and Thor in Endgame like how the ladies group happen in the final battle but other than that "Oh well".
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 05-09-2021 at 03:58 AM.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I would have love to see a scene with Hulk, Antman, Ironman, Wasp ,and Thor in Endgame like how the ladies group happen in the final battle but other than that "Oh well".
    Not a bad idea. Perhaps we might get a past look, flashback, someday or perhaps with the multiversal nature of Loki or other projects we might see this.

    That would be cool; retro looks, Iron Man's big gold armor etc.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    8,392

    Default

    I feel Janet especially got a raw deal. As has been said here, she came up with the name "The Avengers" and she was a far more active and regular part of the Avengers than Hank Pym was. But then that's been the case in the comics ever since Hankistas feeling that their hero's honor was stained got set on repairing Hank's reputation, which has, not coincidentally, come at her expense.

    But it was inevitable. In the age of social media, no way does Marvel or its creators want to deal with journalists asking them "are you going to deal with the character's domestic abuse from the comics?" and have that clickbait trail words like Disney and Marvel.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Hank and Jan should have been in Avengers from day 1, and they should have been the superheroes featured in Ant-Man and the Wasp.

    While I am on it, I might as well get my other peeves out: Much as I like her, Black Widow got way too much air time. Quicksilver should be alive and well with the Avengers.
    Black Widow and Hawkeye are some of the most boring Avengers tbh. I would've traded Hawkeye and Black Widow for Quicksilver, Hank and Jan

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I feel Janet especially got a raw deal. As has been said here, she came up with the name "The Avengers" and she was a far more active and regular part of the Avengers than Hank Pym was. But then that's been the case in the comics ever since Hankistas feeling that their hero's honor was stained got set on repairing Hank's reputation, which has, not coincidentally, come at her expense.

    But it was inevitable. In the age of social media, no way does Marvel or its creators want to deal with journalists asking them "are you going to deal with the character's domestic abuse from the comics?" and have that clickbait trail words like Disney and Marvel.
    So the solution is to not have her, because she was a victim of abuse?

  10. #10
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,456

    Default

    I'm not upset at all. Edgar Wright's Ant-Man was being worked on before the MCU was a thing. As such, the decisions weren't MCU decisions. They were decisions made for the sake of the story he wanted to tell. It was a heist film, so of course Scott Lang would be the lead given that he's a former criminal and all that. Conventionally a hero in an action movie needs a love interest, and Edgar Wright is not opposed to convention. The building blocks of Baby Driver are built on convention. You have Janet, but that wouldn't work. That would be weird. You're going to end up with your mentor's wife? No. So you create Hope, but Hope results in Hank and Janet being aged up. Hope, being a brand new character, needs something to motivate her. She needs some sort of pathos. Her mom is gone and she blames her father.

    As far as story is concerned the decisions made are all incredibly natural, particular for a movie that wasn't originally intended to be part of some larger cinematic universe. I wish there was more Janet too, and I'm not even particularly a Janet fan, but to make her such a driving force for Hope and Hank's action and then bring her back in the first movie or even the first half of the second movie with little fanfare would be garbage. I think the end of the second movie was the perfect time to bring her back. It is kind of a shame she wasn't in Endgame or anything, but she just got back from the quantum realm. Why would she want to be involved in all of that? If I just got back from the quantum realm I'm trying to catch-up and enjoy normalcy for as long as I can considering I married a super scientist. Thanos is back? Well that's to bad, because I'm eating a steak right now, and I haven't had one for decades.

    I just think it all makes sense, and because it all makes sense I can't be mad at it. I'd have to wait for Ant-Man 3 to be upset about the status quo of Ant-Man. Now all the pieces are finally on the board, now they are fully meshed within the MCU, now they are getting the chance to go at a major major marvel villain, I think the is the first time they are in a position to make an Ant-Man movie that could appeal to every Ant-Man and Wasp fan.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    7,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scribbleMind View Post
    I'm not upset at all. Edgar Wright's Ant-Man was being worked on before the MCU was a thing. As such, the decisions weren't MCU decisions. They were decisions made for the sake of the story he wanted to tell. It was a heist film, so of course Scott Lang would be the lead given that he's a former criminal and all that. Conventionally a hero in an action movie needs a love interest, and Edgar Wright is not opposed to convention. The building blocks of Baby Driver are built on convention. You have Janet, but that wouldn't work. That would be weird. You're going to end up with your mentor's wife? No. So you create Hope, but Hope results in Hank and Janet being aged up. Hope, being a brand new character, needs something to motivate her. She needs some sort of pathos. Her mom is gone and she blames her father.

    As far as story is concerned the decisions made are all incredibly natural, particular for a movie that wasn't originally intended to be part of some larger cinematic universe. I wish there was more Janet too, and I'm not even particularly a Janet fan, but to make her such a driving force for Hope and Hank's action and then bring her back in the first movie or even the first half of the second movie with little fanfare would be garbage. I think the end of the second movie was the perfect time to bring her back. It is kind of a shame she wasn't in Endgame or anything, but she just got back from the quantum realm. Why would she want to be involved in all of that? If I just got back from the quantum realm I'm trying to catch-up and enjoy normalcy for as long as I can considering I married a super scientist. Thanos is back? Well that's to bad, because I'm eating a steak right now, and I haven't had one for decades.

    I just think it all makes sense, and because it all makes sense I can't be mad at it. I'd have to wait for Ant-Man 3 to be upset about the status quo of Ant-Man. Now all the pieces are finally on the board, now they are fully meshed within the MCU, now they are getting the chance to go at a major major marvel villain, I think the is the first time they are in a position to make an Ant-Man movie that could appeal to every Ant-Man and Wasp fan.
    I didn't think the first movie was good enough to justify all that

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Hank and Jan should have been in Avengers from day 1, and they should have been the superheroes featured in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
    Agree...there should have been 2 movies with Hank and Jan with Hank moving from Ant Man to one of his other identities...and Scott getting the Ant Man suit for movie 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    While I am on it, I might as well get my other peeves out: Much as I like her, Black Widow got way too much air time. Quicksilver should be alive and well with the Avengers.
    I am not against Natasha's screen time...but it is what leads to my belief their should have been a Hawkeye movie set contemporaneously to CA:WS. Natasha was all over the place and Clint only had the cameo in Thor and then the 2 Avengers movies.

    Agree on Quicksilver as well....they could have had him in a hospital bed hooked up on life support at the end or AoU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I feel Janet especially got a raw deal. As has been said here, she came up with the name "The Avengers" and she was a far more active and regular part of the Avengers than Hank Pym was. But then that's been the case in the comics ever since Hankistas feeling that their hero's honor was stained got set on repairing Hank's reputation, which has, not coincidentally, come at her expense.

    But it was inevitable. In the age of social media, no way does Marvel or its creators want to deal with journalists asking them "are you going to deal with the character's domestic abuse from the comics?" and have that clickbait trail words like Disney and Marvel.
    All the problems caused by one little art mistake that they could not get corrected in time.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 05-09-2021 at 07:04 AM.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I didn't think the first movie was good enough to justify all that
    It's not, but the first movie literally isn't anyone's vision. Because it took so long to come out, it HAD to be part of the MCU, so the movie Edgar Wright wanted to make was never made. That's not what we got because they forced other elements into it and it was re-written a lot. It wasn't really Feige's or Payton Reed's vision because they had to work with the bones of what Wright was going for and knit that together with the rest of the MCU. The movie took so long to reach production that if they wanted to start from scratch and make a fully MCU version of Ant-Man, we probably wouldn't have seen it until after Civil War at best. It is a Frankenstein of a film, but I think it could have been far worse.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    8,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Agree...there should have been 2 movies with Hank and Jan with Hank moving from Ant Man to one of his other identities...and Scott getting the Ant Man suit for movie 3.

    I am not against Natasha's screen time...but it is what leads to my belief their should have been a Hawkeye movie set contemporaneously to CA:WS. Natasha was all over the place and Clint only had the cameo in Thor and then the 2 Avengers movies.

    Agree on Quicksilver as well....they could have had him in a hospital bed hooked up on life support at the end or AoU.
    .
    Natasha was not part of the original Avengers and only guested for a few issues, first as a villain, then as a love-interest for Hawkeye. Then she disappeared for a few years and then guested for a few issues, before doing this again in a few years. Then it was like another 5-6 years before she guested again.

    Hank and Jan were there from the beginning. They could have added Cap and Hulk. In flashbacks, they could have shown Hawkeye, Wanda and Pietro joining, even if Hawkeye was first and then a little later Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. Natasha, if she needed to be added, could have come in later movies.

    Just MHO.......
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,703

    Default

    First movie was mostly popcorn enjoyable, not real deep but not totally undeep.

    But I am one of the few that liked Hope's hair style and the nod it gave to Janet.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •