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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Hank and Jan should have been in Avengers from day 1, and they should have been the superheroes featured in Ant-Man and the Wasp.

    While I am on it, I might as well get my other peeves out: Much as I like her, Black Widow got way too much air time. Quicksilver should be alive and well with the Avengers.
    Quoted for truth. BW would have been best served as a secondary character who joined the team in AOU. She isn't and never really has been a main team member for any length of time. Her character simply isn't suited to being one of "Earth's Mightiest Heroes". She's a spy and an assassin. In EMH she was shown pretty true to form.

    I mean I get why BW and Hawkeye were in the film, it's because they were previously introduced. But from a nostalgia standpoint, sorry it should have been Jan and Hank.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yeah, I know Obe, me too....I thought that was going to be Marvel's chance for someone to fix that terrible thing....
    Well as R. Jack says, Antman was never a major character, however

    he held a series, Tales to Astonish, before the Avengers/close and in context of the very early days of Marvel, was an important character.

    He was overshadowed by nearly everything afterwards; hence the changing of identities and such.

    By the time of the late '70s or so when this wife beating took place, was around the time of David's treatment of Iron Man as recovering alcoholic.

    I read them back then; young adult, but now I wonder if David would have tried to do a similar thing and redeem Hank, but Shooter or other editorial stopped it.
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  3. #48
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    I get that Ant-Man and Wasp aren't major characters, but when has that stopped the MCU? And Hank and Jan are both still more important to the overall MCU than Scott

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Quoted for truth. BW would have been best served as a secondary character who joined the team in AOU. She isn't and never really has been a main team member for any length of time.
    I guess leading the Avengers for more than 50 issues doesn't qualify. Looks even worse compared to the huge number of two issues that is basically the complete Avengers stint of the Hulk prior to the movie.

    Why not just admit it's simply your personal preference, and instead try these mental gymnastics to somehow justify "objectively" what in the end is just a subjective opinion?
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I think it is likely that because the Wright version of Antman seemed to be pre or close to MCU inception, but taking so long, so ping-pongy that someone / someones didn't want or know what to do with Hank/Scott etc.

    It was really quite a disappointment to me, but I decided to deal and it is mostly okay, but I feel nothing strong against SJ and Widow, but it really should have been Jan, with Hank.
    ~ Oberon ~
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    I guess leading the Avengers for more than 50 issues doesn't qualify. Looks even worse compared to the huge number of two issues that is basically the complete Avengers stint of the Hulk prior to the movie.

    Why not just admit it's simply your personal preference, and instead try these mental gymnastics to somehow justify "objectively" what in the end is just a subjective opinion?
    Black Widow has been an Avenger, but not nearly as much as a lot of other characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I think it is likely that because the Wright version of Antman seemed to be pre or close to MCU inception, but taking so long, so ping-pongy that someone / someones didn't want or know what to do with Hank/Scott etc.

    It was really quite a disappointment to me, but I decided to deal and it is mostly okay, but I feel nothing strong against SJ and Widow, but it really should have been Jan, with Hank.
    They still could've had Natasha with Hank and Jan.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Black Widow has been an Avenger, but not nearly as much as a lot of other characters.
    Correct. If we were talking about Tony or Thor or Cap that is. But compared to Hank? Not really.

    As Revolutionary_Jack pointed out he has very little going for him apart from being a founding member. And being a founding member alone doesn't really cut it or would anyone put Hank above Cap? So it's down to personal preference.

    Just found this list, don't know if it's accurate: https://www.cbr.com/avengers-members-ranked-by-tenure/ with BW on #9 while Hank doesn't even make the top 10.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    Correct. If we were talking about Tony or Thor or Cap that is. But compared to Hank? Not really.

    As Revolutionary_Jack pointed out he has very little going for him apart from being a founding member. And being a founding member alone doesn't really cut it or would anyone put Hank above Cap? So it's down to personal preference.

    Just found this list, don't know if it's accurate: https://www.cbr.com/avengers-members-ranked-by-tenure/ with BW on #9 while Hank doesn't even make the top 10.
    Does that include tenure after the MCU began?

  9. #54
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    Hank is a bit like Quicksilver (though a bigger part of the Avengers than Quicksilver) -- they are a pair with a female character who is more important to Avengers history than they are, if only because they're the first two women on the Avengers and still probably the women who have been in the most Avengers comics.

    Jim Shooter's storyline about Hank was partly done to separate Hank and Jan so Jan could become a bigger part of the team and get popular on her own, and that did happen; it's too bad that he made Hank nigh-unusable to do it (much like Steve Englehart turned Quicksilver into a psychotic bigot when he wanted to build Wanda up on her own).

  10. #55
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    Hank also built Ultron, who built Vision, Jocasta and Victor Mancha, and brought in Scott who brought in Cassie. So his legacy is more who he brought into the team

  11. #56
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    That's true. The "family tree" aspect of Ultron was sorely missing from the movie, and because of Ultron, Vision and Jocasta, Hank is "related" to countless Avengers.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    That's true. The "family tree" aspect of Ultron was sorely missing from the movie, and because of Ultron, Vision and Jocasta, Hank is "related" to countless Avengers.
    It might have made MCU Ultron more than just a "I hate humans" kill-bot

  13. #58

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    They are just victims of "development limbo". I liked them from the cartoon and Hank's appearances from Mighty Avengers. Hank and Janet's origin aren't Stan Lee's best work while Scott's origin is more solid. I get why Wright passed them over for Scott.

    I'm a big Doctor Who fan so I don't mind doing an "Old Hank and Janet" film.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 05-09-2021 at 03:47 PM.

  14. #59
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    I'll just put this right here because......but I want Hank back without the Ultron body. Maybe the founders (Tony, Jan, Thor, Bruce/Hulk...and Steve for good measure) all get together for a limited series that involves saving him. They get him home and we get a recurring subplot of Hank dealing with all his emotional issues. Jarvis leaves the Avengers to care for Hank, aside from going for walks he stays home and the only people who get in to see him are his kids...Nadia and William...and Leonard Samson.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I'll just put this right here because......but I want Hank back without the Ultron body. Maybe the founders (Tony, Jan, Thor, Bruce/Hulk...and Steve for good measure) all get together for a limited series that involves saving him. They get him home and we get a recurring subplot of Hank dealing with all his emotional issues. Jarvis leaves the Avengers to care for Hank, aside from going for walks he stays home and the only people who get in to see him are his kids...Nadia and William...and Leonard Samson.
    I wouldn't mind that.

    I'm not up to current, but the last I recall, they had almost/semi rekindled, Jan and Hank. There was even (years ago) a Christmas type special that was maybe just a little innuendo like, hinting at size changing and romantic matters, ahem. But did something change with that?

    Was that around the era where Hank was replaced by a skrull, I remember that happened but something else to or it was off...

    So what and how is the current status of Hank and Jan if you please.
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

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