How the MCU did dirty with Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne

[John Venus]

Um, do yo mean Marvel was doing bad in the comics with representation, or in the movies?

Movies. They were getting slammed for not having any feature led by women or poc's. I mean, three back-to-back movies starring a blonde white man named Chris was both hilarious and an indictment.

The comics relaunching with Sam as Cap, Jane Foster as Thor, Amadeus as Hulk and Marvel TV launching Agent Carter, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage helped off set some of the criticisms but overall, Marvel was late to the party when it came to diversity.

[ed2962]

They did do a lot to redeem Hank in the West Coast Avengers series. Jan an him had a long heartfelt talk and Hank apoligized for everything that went down. Hank was in a very good head space as he was just Dr. Pym then and not a secret identity. The problem came latter when bad writers came on board and decided to dredge up that old incedent again and treat it like it was Hank's whole character, and treating it like the slap happened yesterday and not over 2 decades ago. Between the one two shot of Millar and Austen Hank was dragged not through the mud but through a whole ocean of **** and has never been able to shake the stink those two hacks put on him.

I agree with much of this. Hank was redeemed I think three times in the 80's ( Stern, Englehart, Byrne). Unfortunately, Hank as abuser has become his whole personality to some people.

[CosmiComic]

Movies. They were getting slammed for not having any feature led by women or poc's. I mean, three back-to-back movies starring a blonde white man named Chris was both hilarious and an indictment.

The comics relaunching with Sam as Cap, Jane Foster as Thor, Amadeus as Hulk and Marvel TV launching Agent Carter, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage helped off set some of the criticisms but overall, Marvel was late to the party when it came to diversity.

And they decide to make a movie where the original female Avenger is gone and her replacement doesn't get to be a hero because her dad won't let her. How is that progress? It was still all about two White guys in the end

[Dreaded Porcupine]

They did do a lot to redeem Hank in the West Coast Avengers series. Jan an him had a long heartfelt talk and Hank apoligized for everything that went down. Hank was in a very good head space as he was just Dr. Pym then and not a secret identity. The problem came latter when bad writers came on board and decided to dredge up that old incedent again and treat it like it was Hank's whole character, and treating it like the slap happened yesterday and not over 2 decades ago. Between the one two shot of Millar and Austen Hank was dragged not through the mud but through a whole ocean of **** and has never been able to shake the stink those two hacks put on him.

I agree completely. There are other Marvel characters that have done atrocious things but they get a free pass because of their popularity. I won’t mention any names. Peter Parker has a slap to his credit as well. Tony Stark has been womanizing since the 60’s and was an alcoholic. Magneto tried multiple times to murder everyone who wasn’t a mutant on the planet and now he’s a Krakoan leader and hero. Namor tried multiple times to murder everyone who was an air breather. Hercules? He was the epitome of sexist, bully, egotistical, arrogant. I could go on and on. Jan is no angel either. She basically took advantage of him when he had his psychoses to get him to marry her while keeping it away from the Avengers. If a man did what Jan did he would be crucified. I could go on and on but only Hank gets railed on over and over again. Give the guy a break. He’s a fictional character like all the rest I have mentioned who was written by writers. Some horrible writers like Austen. Arguably the worst writer Marvel ever had. Cut Hank some slack. Marvel created him. Marvel wrote him. Marvel ruined him and now Marvel shits all over him. Marvel the company should get the wrath. Hank isn’t real but double standards are.

[Nyssane]

#JanetVanCrime

[Dreaded Porcupine]

#JanetVanCrime

Hilarious!

[LAWtoyoto 432]

I agree completely. There are other Marvel characters that have done atrocious things but they get a free pass because of their popularity. I won’t mention any names. Peter Parker has a slap to his credit as well. Tony Stark has been womanizing since the 60’s and was an alcoholic. Magneto tried multiple times to murder everyone who wasn’t a mutant on the planet and now he’s a Krakoan leader and hero. Namor tried multiple times to murder everyone who was an air breather. Hercules? He was the epitome of sexist, bully, egotistical, arrogant. I could go on and on. Jan is no angel either. She basically took advantage of him when he had his psychoses to get him to marry her while keeping it away from the Avengers. If a man did what Jan did he would be crucified. I could go on and on but only Hank gets railed on over and over again. Give the guy a break. He’s a fictional character like all the rest I have mentioned who was written by writers. Some horrible writers like Austen. Arguably the worst writer Marvel ever had. Cut Hank some slack. Marvel created him. Marvel wrote him. Marvel ruined him and now Marvel shits all over him. Marvel the company should get the wrath. Hank isn’t real but double standards are.

All these sentence remind me of the Harvey Weinstein and many other men work in the hollywood who have sexual harrass many women but didn't speak up about their crimes back then due because how famous and popular they are in the Hollywood.

The same can get away for Tony, Peter, Namor, Hercules and Magneto. However, These heroes will become very dangerous once their popular keep ignore their past crimes.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

All these sentence remind me of the Harvey Weinstein and many other men work in the hollywood who have sexual harrass many women but didn't speak up about their crimes back then due because how famous and popular they are in the Hollywood.

The same can get away for Tony, Peter, Namor, Hercules and Magneto. However, These heroes will become very dangerous once their popular keep ignore their past crimes.

Again this is just comic books. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just fictional stories. Some of these stories are compelling. Someone has to be the good guy. Someone the bad. My only gripe is Hank did this what, 40 years ago? People act like he did it yesterday and the day before and so on. Let it go. I forget just about all of this and move on with new stories. I will still read Iron Man. Spider-Man. The X-Men. Are people trying to get generic stories written like DC did in the 60’s? I actually enjoyed the Yellow Jacket Pym even if he lost his mind. I forgave him years ago because it’s just fiction. I don’t want comic books to become so PC that no one can write a story anymore. If this happens Marvel, DC and the rest of them will be a thing of the past. No one will buy media that is so restricted that writers hands are tied. Does anyone remember the comics code?

I’d like to see a writer come along and take the challenge of doing something positive with Pym for a change. Namor has always been a fairly popular anti-hero. Magneto extreme but popular. Villain one decade a hero another. It all depends on the writer to make or break the character. A good writer can make a character after another writer breaks him. Tony is recovering alcoholic. Hercules is more humble. Magneto is now a firm ally of all mutants. Namor has been a jerk lately but that will change. Everyone gets a chance at redemption from a good writers standpoint. Why not Pym?

[CosmiComic]

Again this is just comic books. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just fictional stories. Some of these stories are compelling. Someone has to be the good guy. Someone the bad. My only gripe is Hank did this what, 40 years ago? People act like he did it yesterday and the day before and so on. Let it go. I forget just about all of this and move on with new stories. I will still read Iron Man. Spider-Man. The X-Men. Are people trying to get generic stories written like DC did in the 60’s? I actually enjoyed the Yellow Jacket Pym even if he lost his mind. I forgave him years ago because it’s just fiction. I don’t want comic books to become so PC that no one can write a story anymore. If this happens Marvel, DC and the rest of them will be a thing of the past. No one will buy media that is so restricted that writers hands are tied. Does anyone remember the comics code?

I’d like to see a writer come along and take the challenge of doing something positive with Pym for a change. Namor has always been a fairly popular anti-hero. Magneto extreme but popular. Villain one decade a hero another. It all depends on the writer to make or break the character. A good writer can make a character after another writer breaks him. Tony is recovering alcoholic. Hercules is more humble. Magneto is now a firm ally of all mutants. Namor has been a jerk lately but that will change. Everyone gets a chance at redemption from a good writers standpoint. Why not Pym?

I don't see how comics becoming PC is such a big thing to fear.

I've never gotten the point of Namor tbh. He's a jackass for no reason at all IMO. As for Magneto, that seems to be the X-Men comics' "mutant is good" attitude

[Chris0013]

I agree completely. There are other Marvel characters that have done atrocious things but they get a free pass because of their popularity. I won’t mention any names. Peter Parker has a slap to his credit as well. Tony Stark has been womanizing since the 60’s and was an alcoholic. Magneto tried multiple times to murder everyone who wasn’t a mutant on the planet and now he’s a Krakoan leader and hero. Namor tried multiple times to murder everyone who was an air breather. Hercules? He was the epitome of sexist, bully, egotistical, arrogant. I could go on and on. Jan is no angel either. She basically took advantage of him when he had his psychoses to get him to marry her while keeping it away from the Avengers. If a man did what Jan did he would be crucified. I could go on and on but only Hank gets railed on over and over again. Give the guy a break. He’s a fictional character like all the rest I have mentioned who was written by writers. Some horrible writers like Austen. Arguably the worst writer Marvel ever had. Cut Hank some slack. Marvel created him. Marvel wrote him. Marvel ruined him and now Marvel shits all over him. Marvel the company should get the wrath. Hank isn’t real but double standards are.

It happened once...it was not a habit. Hank's has been shown to be more than remorseful for it....in fact at times he is shown to actually hate himself for it. Jan has forgiven him and even gone back to him on occasion. I am not excusing the incident but it is time to move on. But it is also part of the reason I think there should be an editorial mandate that Hank and Jan should never get back together romantically.

[CosmiComic]

I think them staying apart is probably for the best.

[Oberon]

Organically is the best way.

First, we would need all writers, whether a story of Pym or one where he is involved, must only use him for the story and not ever bring up this past.
All these stories should be "good on him" - he does good things, or very important good things *and*
none of them feature Jan, or any other character who could make the call-back to the bad story more possible.
So maybe no Tigra, etc.
After at least 2 or 3 of these stories, Hank should somehow wind up in an Avengers book again, or maybe another team book
and have "good on him" stories again.
the point would be that whether or not he and Jan's orbit coincide again, it would be better from this basis as associates fighting the good fight.

Personally I would like to see Hank with the FF in a sort of sequel to "The Micro World of Dr. Doom" from very way back. After all it was the Pym serum that caused the FF, and later Hank, to shrink into the Microverse the first time.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Organically is the best way.

First, we would need all writers, whether a story of Pym or one where he is involved, must only use him for the story and not ever bring up this past.
All these stories should be "good on him" - he does good things, or very important good things *and*
none of them feature Jan, or any other character who could make the call-back to the bad story more possible.
So maybe no Tigra, etc.
After at least 2 or 3 of these stories, Hank should somehow wind up in an Avengers book again, or maybe another team book
and have "good on him" stories again.
the point would be that whether or not he and Jan's orbit coincide again, it would be better from this basis as associates fighting the good fight.

Personally I would like to see Hank with the FF in a sort of sequel to "The Micro World of Dr. Doom" from very way back. After all it was the Pym serum that caused the FF, and later Hank, to shrink into the Microverse the first time.

Anything. Just give him a chance instead of limbo. Of course he can’t be Ant-Man because Scott is. He can’t be Giant-Man because Raz is. It’s either Yellow Jacket or a whole new identity. I’d love to see Hank, Scott, Cassie and Raz on the same team.

[chamber-music]

They did do a lot to redeem Hank in the West Coast Avengers series. Jan an him had a long heartfelt talk and Hank apoligized for everything that went down. Hank was in a very good head space as he was just Dr. Pym then and not a secret identity. The problem came latter when bad writers came on board and decided to dredge up that old incedent again and treat it like it was Hank's whole character, and treating it like the slap happened yesterday and not over 2 decades ago. Between the one two shot of Millar and Austen Hank was dragged not through the mud but through a whole ocean of **** and has never been able to shake the stink those two hacks put on him.

I agree with this.

I think people tend to forget that there was a lot of healing and growth with the characters of Hank and Janet for a good couple of decades in comics post slap. Hank and Janet served on the Avengers together and even started dating again. People hating Hank Pym and going on about him being a wife beater really started to kick up around the dissembled/Ultimate's period. Since then it has become something of a recurring issue that is mentioned whenever both characters were used. Continuingly referencing it has actually been more of a hindrance to both characters and probably should of been left alone after a while like Spider-Man's slap. Marvel editors should of put a moratorium on it unless there was a really good reason for mentioning it.

[chamber-music]

Anything. Just give him a chance instead of limbo. Of course he can’t be Ant-Man because Scott is. He can’t be Giant-Man because Raz is. It’s either Yellow Jacket or a whole new identity. I’d love to see Hank, Scott, Cassie and Raz on the same team.

A team of size changers like Hank, Janet, Scott, Cassie, Raz and Erik going on a FF style exploration of the Microverse would be a fun read to me.