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  1. #46
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Marcus To is awesome.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  2. #47
    Fantastic Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    Rogue looks absolutely banging. I wish Gambit's outfit was a bit more complimentary to hers, but that might be too much to expect from the character.
    Last edited by Foon4000; 05-12-2021 at 01:56 AM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whim View Post
    I was going to say Shogo ruined Jubilee but .... before this she lost all her friends in Gen X, was depowered, and turned into a vampire.

    Despite all of that the Shogo arc has still been her worst. All she does now everything is Shogo. She can't be her own character anymore.

    It's definitely hindering her character as it's become her whole character.
    Well, someone's finally gotten relatively close to the truth regarding comic book characters having kids, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything. The thing is, people talk about "having kids sidelines characters". The truth is, other than Reed and Sue Richards and Jessica Drew, the characters who already get to have kids are the ones who end up sidelined a lot anyway. Jubilee, Tigra, Meggan, Cannonball, etc. Heck, even Luke Cage can't carry a solo book.

    [Sigh] I still like Shogo, but let's break down some of the issues here.

    Jubilee is a character who not many people particularly care about aside from the fact that she was on the '90s cartoon. Many people remember that she was the "kid member" and that she complained a lot. But the break down for the character is basically that she was the X-Men's foster kid. The twist being that she was both a motor-mouthed, self-indulgent mallrat and a cynical, snarky teenage runaway. So, the central themes that have surrounded the character are loss, loneliness, found family and bridging the gap between "surviving" and "living life". These are what the track of her character development should have traveled down. If you go back and read the run up to Generation X, you'll see the X-Men as her family was a big thing. The reason she left to study in Massachusetts was because members of her new family were getting hurt and she wasn't able to do anything to help them (Illyana died, Bobby was put in a coma for a while, Logan got injured by Magneto, etc). So, she was going to leave, become a better X-Man and maybe come back as someone that her family could rely on instead of her always relying on them.

    Which might have worked if editorial was invested enough in the character and the whole franchise hadn't changed under her feet.

    You see, by the time Jubilee came back to the X-Men, they weren't really doing the "family" vibe anymore. They became more of a school. And now they're more of a political entity (but I digress). It became hard to develop her along those themes when they didn't exactly mesh with what was going on and when editorial really sees her more as a side character. She had her own team with New Warriors (vol. 4) so that could have worked, but it didn't last long. Then they made her a teacher in Gen X vol. 2, which I guess is kind of big sister-y. It also didn't last long. In a way, giving her Shogo was kind of brilliant in that it gave her a little portable family of her own. A little bundle of proof that she's now a nurturing, reliable person. In fact, Brian Wood was surprisingly smart about it in that he flipped the script and had it not be that Shogo was in danger because of Jubilee but that Jubilee was in danger because of Shogo. Arkea didn't know an X-Man would be there when she possessed him. And the Future (who I'll remind you is now dead) was only there because Shogo is his son. So, it should work. Provided they don't lean into it too hard. And provided they just allow him to be a baby and a sign of Jubilee's maturation rather than deciding he's a character who's not pulling his weight and age him up. It'll be fine if they handle it with care.

    Sadly, I don't trust Marvel's writers to handle the situation with care.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Well, someone's finally gotten relatively close to the truth regarding comic book characters having kids, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything. The thing is, people talk about "having kids sidelines characters". The truth is, other than Reed and Sue Richards and Jessica Drew, the characters who already get to have kids are the ones who end up sidelined a lot anyway. Jubilee, Tigra, Meggan, Cannonball, etc. Heck, even Luke Cage can't carry a solo book.

    [Sigh] I still like Shogo, but let's break down some of the issues here.

    Jubilee is a character who not many people particularly care about aside from the fact that she was on the '90s cartoon. Many people remember that she was the "kid member" and that she complained a lot. But the break down for the character is basically that she was the X-Men's foster kid. The twist being that she was both a motor-mouthed, self-indulgent mallrat and a cynical, snarky teenage runaway. So, the central themes that have surrounded the character are loss, loneliness, found family and bridging the gap between "surviving" and "living life". These are what the track of her character development should have traveled down. If you go back and read the run up to Generation X, you'll see the X-Men as her family was a big thing. The reason she left to study in Massachusetts was because members of her new family were getting hurt and she wasn't able to do anything to help them (Illyana died, Bobby was put in a coma for a while, Logan got injured by Magneto, etc). So, she was going to leave, become a better X-Man and maybe come back as someone that her family could rely on instead of her always relying on them.

    Which might have worked if editorial was invested enough in the character and the whole franchise hadn't changed under her feet.

    You see, by the time Jubilee came back to the X-Men, they weren't really doing the "family" vibe anymore. They became more of a school. And now they're more of a political entity (but I digress). It became hard to develop her along those themes when they didn't exactly mesh with what was going on and when editorial really sees her more as a side character. She had her own team with New Warriors (vol. 4) so that could have worked, but it didn't last long. Then they made her a teacher in Gen X vol. 2, which I guess is kind of big sister-y. It also didn't last long. In a way, giving her Shogo was kind of brilliant in that it gave her a little portable family of her own. A little bundle of proof that she's now a nurturing, reliable person. In fact, Brian Wood was surprisingly smart about it in that he flipped the script and had it not be that Shogo was in danger because of Jubilee but that Jubilee was in danger because of Shogo. Arkea didn't know an X-Man would be there when she possessed him. And the Future (who I'll remind you is now dead) was only there because Shogo is his son. So, it should work. Provided they don't lean into it too hard. And provided they just allow him to be a baby and a sign of Jubilee's maturation rather than deciding he's a character who's not pulling his weight and age him up. It'll be fine if they handle it with care.

    Sadly, I don't trust Marvel's writers to handle the situation with care.
    Very dope analysis. I had fun reading it!

  5. #50

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    I hate what Shogo has done to Jubilees character even worse than vampirifcation.
    it's not fun at all.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Considering what happend in this series so far, Jubilee might be averse to ever let him out of sight again, which does not bode well for how the kid might develop eventualy.
    Though judging by how children grow up in super hero comics, unless he is thrown into a dimension where time runs faster so he comes back as adult, he either will never grow up or get eventualy handed to someone to get written out of Jubilee's life.
    One can only hope.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Marcus To has been the most consistent artist but all his faces look the same and/or skew too young.

    He needs to differentiate the eyes and noses for characters.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Well, someone's finally gotten relatively close to the truth regarding comic book characters having kids, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything. The thing is, people talk about "having kids sidelines characters". The truth is, other than Reed and Sue Richards and Jessica Drew, the characters who already get to have kids are the ones who end up sidelined a lot anyway. Jubilee, Tigra, Meggan, Cannonball, etc. Heck, even Luke Cage can't carry a solo book.

    [Sigh] I still like Shogo, but let's break down some of the issues here.

    Jubilee is a character who not many people particularly care about aside from the fact that she was on the '90s cartoon. Many people remember that she was the "kid member" and that she complained a lot. But the break down for the character is basically that she was the X-Men's foster kid. The twist being that she was both a motor-mouthed, self-indulgent mallrat and a cynical, snarky teenage runaway. So, the central themes that have surrounded the character are loss, loneliness, found family and bridging the gap between "surviving" and "living life". These are what the track of her character development should have traveled down. If you go back and read the run up to Generation X, you'll see the X-Men as her family was a big thing. The reason she left to study in Massachusetts was because members of her new family were getting hurt and she wasn't able to do anything to help them (Illyana died, Bobby was put in a coma for a while, Logan got injured by Magneto, etc). So, she was going to leave, become a better X-Man and maybe come back as someone that her family could rely on instead of her always relying on them.

    Which might have worked if editorial was invested enough in the character and the whole franchise hadn't changed under her feet.

    You see, by the time Jubilee came back to the X-Men, they weren't really doing the "family" vibe anymore. They became more of a school. And now they're more of a political entity (but I digress). It became hard to develop her along those themes when they didn't exactly mesh with what was going on and when editorial really sees her more as a side character. She had her own team with New Warriors (vol. 4) so that could have worked, but it didn't last long. Then they made her a teacher in Gen X vol. 2, which I guess is kind of big sister-y. It also didn't last long. In a way, giving her Shogo was kind of brilliant in that it gave her a little portable family of her own. A little bundle of proof that she's now a nurturing, reliable person. In fact, Brian Wood was surprisingly smart about it in that he flipped the script and had it not be that Shogo was in danger because of Jubilee but that Jubilee was in danger because of Shogo. Arkea didn't know an X-Man would be there when she possessed him. And the Future (who I'll remind you is now dead) was only there because Shogo is his son. So, it should work. Provided they don't lean into it too hard. And provided they just allow him to be a baby and a sign of Jubilee's maturation rather than deciding he's a character who's not pulling his weight and age him up. It'll be fine if they handle it with care.

    Sadly, I don't trust Marvel's writers to handle the situation with care.
    You said it best yourself. Consistency.

    On the surface Excalibur should suit her fine since it's about family. Jubilee has even 3 old Blue teammates there. Yet they aren't building up a family unit or team. It revolves around one or two characters and the rest are there to support those plots. So many things you could do with exploring the group as a smaller family. Even Rogue and Gambits decision to not have a baby wasn't really influenced from them being around Shogo and Jubilee. Witch would certainly seem to have been something that could have been explored.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    You said it best yourself. Consistency.

    On the surface Excalibur should suit her fine since it's about family. Jubilee has even 3 old Blue teammates there. Yet they aren't building up a family unit or team. It revolves around one or two characters and the rest are there to support those plots. So many things you could do with exploring the group as a smaller family. Even Rogue and Gambits decision to not have a baby wasn't really influenced from them being around Shogo and Jubilee. Witch would certainly seem to have been something that could have been explored.
    Is that what it's about? I wasn't sure.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Is that what it's about? I wasn't sure.
    Excalibur are many things. Family is one of them. Mostly it's about the Braddock family and the importance of not only that legacy but also the current version. It also models itself of the old Excalibur title where the team became sort of a surrogate family.

  11. #56
    Fantastic Member Knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Excalibur are many things. Family is one of them. Mostly it's about the Braddock family and the importance of not only that legacy but also the current version. It also models itself of the old Excalibur title where the team became sort of a surrogate family.
    Excalibur's primary purpose is to be the Euro/UK X-Men. Upholding Xavier's original dream "of a world where all of Earth's children, mutant and otherwise, live together in peace and harmony. Where people are judged for who they are -- not what they look like or how they're born". Since he's given up that dream and decided to start a cult, it would be nice if Excalibur goes back to being the black sheep of the X-Family being the only team to push those values. It would make for an interesting dichotomy of views on how they whole Krakoa experiment is going.
    I feel the family bit, is what you get when, a group of people go through thick and thin together and get closer as a result. This could be applied to any X-Team in reality. The currently Excalibur book is about the trial and tribulations of one Elizabeth Braddock and all the other people that are getting caught up in her 'issues'. It's not really what Excalibur is meant to be about and would be better placed in a solo title.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    Excalibur's primary purpose is to be the Euro/UK X-Men. Upholding Xavier's original dream "of a world where all of Earth's children, mutant and otherwise, live together in peace and harmony. Where people are judged for who they are -- not what they look like or how they're born". Since he's given up that dream and decided to start a cult, it would be nice if Excalibur goes back to being the black sheep of the X-Family being the only team to push those values. It would make for an interesting dichotomy of views on how they whole Krakoa experiment is going.
    I feel the family bit, is what you get when, a group of people go through thick and thin together and get closer as a result. This could be applied to any X-Team in reality. The currently Excalibur book is about the trial and tribulations of one Elizabeth Braddock and all the other people that are getting caught up in her 'issues'. It's not really what Excalibur is meant to be about and would be better placed in a solo title.
    Yeah, truth be told, I dropped pretty much all the X-books a couple months ago. But before I did, it seemed pretty clear that the main purpose of Excalibur was to develop Betsy in the role of Captain Britain. And, we all know why, right? They're trying to do like they did with Captain Marvel and revamp the concept of Captain Britain around a more popular female (former) supporting character. Who also, incidentally, gained some of their popularity from hanging around with the X-Men. Then they can make a Captain Britain movie that's all about magic and fantasy, but with more dragons and Arthurian stuff than Dr. Strange or Thor typically has. What makes it decidedly different from the deal with Captain Marvel, is they're simultaneously revamping the concept of Psylocke so that the most famous image of that character isn't literally a white woman trapped in an Asian body anymore.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Marcus To has been the most consistent artist but all his faces look the same and/or skew too young.

    He needs to differentiate the eyes and noses for characters.
    Yes please, credit where credit is due. I agree that To needs to do more to make his characters look different (it's a problem a few different artists have - Jim Cheung comes to mind) but in a world where artists do 3 issues in a row before taking a 6-month break, To needs to be commended for the consistency, speed and quality he always brings to his work.

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    Yes please, credit where credit is due. I agree that To needs to do more to make his characters look different (it's a problem a few different artists have - Jim Cheung comes to mind) but in a world where artists do 3 issues in a row before taking a 6-month break, To needs to be commended for the consistency, speed and quality he always brings to his work.
    Amen and thank you for saying it.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Is that page implying Meggan is pregnant with her hand on her stomach or am I reaching?
    My first thought also!!!! Plus Brian is looking down at the stomach to with a huge smile....

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