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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I've been pondering a bit more about the possible timeline here.
    I have been trying to connect the dots too, but there are too many things that don't add up. For example, I had thought they might have pillaged the ship for tech, but as you mentioned they just had two crashed pods and 1) would they even know what to do with anything they found and 2) how quickly would that site be swarming with SWORD or SHIELD or AIM or whoever anyway. But their abilities do seem very tech based.

    One thing I am picking up on that just seems too purposeful is the similarities between Cole and Carmen. Mood swings and sweatiness. Might not seem like much, but I do not think Cole was the only one who went through the procedure.

    The hard part is trying to figure out how much of this might be due to rewrites for various reasons, how much is supposed to be a mystery, and how much is just the story's fault.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I am going to disagree with that the concept of it look just fine, It was just the X-fanbase being salty over their young favs characters being passed over new characters. There was no amount marketing that would have stop that and even worse it caught up in New Warrior crap storm. The book just look like the X-men version of young Avengers there was nothing innately bad about the pitch but I can agree the secretiveness of the book plot and not being able to talk about things did let certain fans ideas and opinion just run wild as if they were facts.

    I am very happy that quality of book is speaking for it now instead of the wild theories, Now if people don't like it that is fair but I think CotA "bad marketing" was really people making up their mind on bad information they read in threads.
    I have to agree, sadly it feels like every time a book is announced that is a bit different, is not about the same usual characters, teams, topics, the great majority of fans have this uncontrollable urge to criticize it without even knowing what is actually about it. I donít know if itís the young generation not being able to wait more than 1 seconds for something without throwing a tantrum (the same happens with previews, especially unlettered, big dramas that in the end are always about nothing because due to paranoid interpretations and biases) or if itís the old generation that should probably realize that comics are not for them if all they want is a rehashing of their favorite character and stories, but itís sad this is the state of American super hero comics fandom.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    I have to agree, sadly it feels like every time a book is announced that is a bit different, is not about the same usual characters, teams, topics, the great majority of fans have this uncontrollable urge to criticize it without even knowing what is actually about it. I donít know if itís the young generation not being able to wait more than 1 seconds for something without throwing a tantrum (the same happens with previews, especially unlettered, big dramas that in the end are always about nothing because due to paranoid interpretations and biases) or if itís the old generation that should probably realize that comics are not for them if all they want is a rehashing of their favorite character and stories, but itís sad this is the state of American super hero comics fandom.
    That's completely missing the point of why people were mad. Nobody wants nothing but rehashing stories. They don't want yet more new characters when there are mountains of older characters who haven't gotten ANY stories to them at all. X books in particular have had major stagnation problems with relying on the same small group of characters to headline things while repeating the same plot points ad nauseum. The same can't be said of D listers like Anole, Maggot, etc. Its once again giving the already-existing minor characters the shaft for yet more new people who will almost certainly join the pile of 'ignored plots and characters' that got people salty.

    The marketing was abysmal and relied on the 'mystery' of these kids, while not giving any reason to actually care about them as characters. We didn't even get their names!

    As for timeline and explanations, how much is setting up a mystery and how much is just plain old bad writing is hard to say. After the awful mess of a second issue I'm inclined to call it bad writing. It can just be a badly written mystery, to meet in the middle

  4. #49
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    With no X-Men and missing the great art, this one just fell flat for me. I hate these kids I've decided.

  5. #50
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    Haven't seen a thread for issue 4.

    Turns out their powers really do just come from the tech they salvaged from the alien ship's escape pods. Which once again makes all major parties involved look quite dumb.

    First there are the X-men.
    They just buy that a bunch of teenagers are mutants because they claim to be so. They don't notice the difference between powers from tech and actualy organic super powers, despite knowing alien technology very well and there was even a New Warriors team made of depowered mutants in the past who used tech to act as super heros (Jubilee being the leader on top of that). Something like this might have worked with the 05 back in their original stories, when they were a bunch of rookies, but after all the X-men have experienced, after they became such veterans, alien tech should not be able to fool them this simple.

    There is also the running gag of Deadpool claiming to be a mutant and the X-men dismissing him as such because his powers merely come from X-gene infused cancer cells. But here we have a kid with a teleportation device (which Deadpool also has) and somehow this convinces people who have more or less seen it all, that yep this kid is a mutant but Deadpool isn't.

    They also don't notice that a "telepath" is actualy just using pheromone sprayers. This is wrong on so many levels. Besides the difference being very easy to spot (Pixie who has similar powers naturaly was even among those who met these kids) and that psychic powers tend to have a signature they should have picked up, they also just assume that said "telepath" is somehow powerfull enough to block Cerebro at all time.

    And yet without any proof the X-men are paying major attention to these kids, discussing them in private as serious topic and are even willing to argue with the Avengers in their favor.

    Then there are the U-Men who do the same despite the fact that they should have various pieces of technology which should highlight X-genes considering that their whole business is identifying mutants and taking them appart for their organs.

    They should certainly be able to tell appart someone using technology and being covered in sweat from a kid who got mutant cells infused recently and actual mutants. While going for Carmen makes sense since she seems to be a mutant now. The rest should be just blanks on their scanner devices.

    And then there are all the various groups like SHIELD, SWORD, etc. who completely missed an alien space ship exploding in orbit and dropping two escape pods off beforehand.

    Honestly. At this point i'm half expecting the entire series to turn out to be nothing but Buddies self insert fan fiction in universe.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Honestly. At this point i'm half expecting the entire series to turn out to be nothing but Buddies self insert fan fiction in universe.
    I don't disagree with your criticisms, but I got over those issues and found other aspects to just enjoy. Same thing with the Hickman era in general, so much of it is a load of crap but I just gave up caring and am taking it for what it is, and that is definitely helped by the fact that there is not a lot of Marvel stuff that seems to care either, just look at Aaron's Avengers.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's completely missing the point of why people were mad. Nobody wants nothing but rehashing stories. They don't want yet more new characters when there are mountains of older characters who haven't gotten ANY stories to them at all. X books in particular have had major stagnation problems with relying on the same small group of characters to headline things while repeating the same plot points ad nauseum. The same can't be said of D listers like Anole, Maggot, etc. Its once again giving the already-existing minor characters the shaft for yet more new people who will almost certainly join the pile of 'ignored plots and characters' that got people salty.

    The marketing was abysmal and relied on the 'mystery' of these kids, while not giving any reason to actually care about them as characters. We didn't even get their names!

    As for timeline and explanations, how much is setting up a mystery and how much is just plain old bad writing is hard to say. After the awful mess of a second issue I'm inclined to call it bad writing. It can just be a badly written mystery, to meet in the middle
    The storytelling choices are bad, that is the problem. They made a huge deal of the secret on first isssues just to give it away casually.
    Then do a great cliffhanger and doesn't expand it on the next issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Haven't seen a thread for issue 4.

    Turns out their powers really do just come from the tech they salvaged from the alien ship's escape pods. Which once again makes all major parties involved look quite dumb.

    First there are the X-men.
    They just buy that a bunch of teenagers are mutants because they claim to be so. They don't notice the difference between powers from tech and actualy organic super powers, despite knowing alien technology very well and there was even a New Warriors team made of depowered mutants in the past who used tech to act as super heros (Jubilee being the leader on top of that). Something like this might have worked with the 05 back in their original stories, when they were a bunch of rookies, but after all the X-men have experienced, after they became such veterans, alien tech should not be able to fool them this simple.

    There is also the running gag of Deadpool claiming to be a mutant and the X-men dismissing him as such because his powers merely come from X-gene infused cancer cells. But here we have a kid with a teleportation device (which Deadpool also has) and somehow this convinces people who have more or less seen it all, that yep this kid is a mutant but Deadpool isn't.

    They also don't notice that a "telepath" is actualy just using pheromone sprayers. This is wrong on so many levels. Besides the difference being very easy to spot (Pixie who has similar powers naturaly was even among those who met these kids) and that psychic powers tend to have a signature they should have picked up, they also just assume that said "telepath" is somehow powerfull enough to block Cerebro at all time.

    And yet without any proof the X-men are paying major attention to these kids, discussing them in private as serious topic and are even willing to argue with the Avengers in their favor.

    Then there are the U-Men who do the same despite the fact that they should have various pieces of technology which should highlight X-genes considering that their whole business is identifying mutants and taking them appart for their organs.

    They should certainly be able to tell appart someone using technology and being covered in sweat from a kid who got mutant cells infused recently and actual mutants. While going for Carmen makes sense since she seems to be a mutant now. The rest should be just blanks on their scanner devices.

    And then there are all the various groups like SHIELD, SWORD, etc. who completely missed an alien space ship exploding in orbit and dropping two escape pods off beforehand.

    Honestly. At this point i'm half expecting the entire series to turn out to be nothing but Buddies self insert fan fiction in universe.
    There is alot of things that simply doesn't make sense. X-men thinking cosplays are mutants really make them look bad

    I liked first and second issue, but rd and 4th were rough
    Last edited by Rang10; 06-13-2021 at 07:40 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    The storytelling choices are bad, that is the problem. They made a huge deal of the secret on first isssues just to give it away casually.
    Then do a great cliffhanger and doesn't expand it on the next issue



    There is alot of things that simply doesn't make sense. X-men thinking cosplays are mutants really make them look bad

    I liked first and second issue, but rd and 4th were rough
    Totally agree, the storyline is going downhill with the last two issues.
    I enjoy anything Marvel cosmic, especially Thanos or Dark Phoenix related, loved the original Uncanny Avengers series.

    (Marvel/DC fan for 42+ years)

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    They also don't notice that a "telepath" is actually just using pheromone sprayers. This is wrong on so many levels. Besides the difference being very easy to spot (Pixie who has similar powers naturally was even among those who met these kids) and that psychic powers tend to have a signature they should have picked up, they also just assume that said "telepath" is somehow powerful enough to block Cerebro at all time.
    I find that bolded part most troubling because Cerebro's their method for resurrection protocol backups in this new generation, so some new group of mutant teens who are somehow *blocking Cerebro* and getting into adventures off of Krakoa are putting themselves in constant terrible risk of permanent death.

    That should at least warrant an X-peep pausing long enough to give them a heads-up!

    Particularly someone who isn't terribly busy in some other title, and has zero excuse for not stopping to have like, thirty seconds worth of conversation with these kids, like Maggot.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I find that bolded part most troubling because Cerebro's their method for resurrection protocol backups in this new generation, so some new group of mutant teens who are somehow *blocking Cerebro* and getting into adventures off of Krakoa are putting themselves in constant terrible risk of permanent death.

    That should at least warrant an X-peep pausing long enough to give them a heads-up!

    Particularly someone who isn't terribly busy in some other title, and has zero excuse for not stopping to have like, thirty seconds worth of conversation with these kids, like Maggot.
    Storm did talk to them.

    So this is a problem with big brain ideas like Cerebro 3.0, it makes every other story have to take into account all the ramifications of that and often it is not even something the main story cares about or relies on at the moment, and the idea itself requires the (long time) reader to ignore all sorts of prior stories. To me this is more a criticism of that idea in the first place, and not a story like this that may or may not be following the rules (as we don't actually know just how Cerebro works). And I know I was one of the people who criticised the first couple issue for that plot hole too.

    That said, issue 3 and 4 don't even carry on that plot at all so I find it odd people keep bringing that up while saying those issues were better.

  11. #56
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    Something else i notice.

    Is the Weapon X project common knowledge in the Marvel Universe by now?

    Because how else is the character this issue supposed to know of them and their relation to Wolverine that he gives himself an online nickname based on it?

    I admit, they could be a sort of urban legend or boggie man. But it's still weird how suddently very obscure or supposed to be secret informations related to mutants are suddently common knowledge judging by the "fan culture" presented here.
    It feels more like something someone in the real world who has a "god's perspective" on the Marvel Universe would not only do but have people understand.

    It was allready strange that they knew who Maggott was in the first issue, given that he was only a X-men for a very brief time, the X-men didn't do any public mission during his time on the team (only Marrow stuck around long enough to be involved in saving people and being involved in a major event), he was dead for a long time and since comming back has hardly done anything which shouldn't put him even on the radar of internet using mutant fans, unless they are really the kind of people who would know every little detail of obscure stuff.

    Like the people who can name every storm trooper actor in the original Star Wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I don't disagree with your criticisms, but I got over those issues and found other aspects to just enjoy. Same thing with the Hickman era in general, so much of it is a load of crap but I just gave up caring and am taking it for what it is, and that is definitely helped by the fact that there is not a lot of Marvel stuff that seems to care either, just look at Aaron's Avengers.
    That's allright. But i'm not willing to lower my measuring bar for what kind of quality i expect from the writers, just because another key franchise of the publishers is also mishandled with low quality writing.

    In this case however i think i'm particular critical because i feel like there could be an interesting story to tell and characters to explore with the setup given, but the writer is in my opinion squandering said potential with the way the story is constructed and the way the these new characters are designed and the established characters handled.

    With said established/adult characters (possibly unintentional) presented as weirdly dumb, metaphorical blind or plainly foolish and not in a natural way (because one major aspect of super heros is that they still have basic human failings) but in a way that feels forced, just so the story can work the way the writer wants, rather than the writer finding a way to make the story work in despite of the skills, abilities and experience of said characters.

    Though this is a classic mistake which has occasionaly shown up when kid characters are the main characters in situations/settings with established adult characters. But that's to me still not a reason to let the situation slide here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There is alot of things that simply doesn't make sense. X-men thinking cosplays are mutants really make them look bad

    I liked first and second issue, but rd and 4th were rough
    I can't help myself but feel like the story at times feels like fan-fiction. Not the horrible "meme worthy" kind, which is infamous around the internet. But the rough kind where one feels the writer is meanig well but hasn't grasped how to handle the established characters and setting yet and is too focused on proping their OCs up.

    Which if it's intentional would be kind of meta i admit. Hence why i'm half suspecting the whole story to turn out as an universe fantasy by Buddy.

  12. #57
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    So this is a problem with big brain ideas like Cerebro 3.0, it makes every other story have to take into account all the ramifications of that and often it is not even something the main story cares about or relies on at the moment, and the idea itself requires the (long time) reader to ignore all sorts of prior stories. To me this is more a criticism of that idea in the first place, and not a story like this that may or may not be following the rules (as we don't actually know just how Cerebro works). And I know I was one of the people who criticised the first couple issue for that plot hole too.

    That said, issue 3 and 4 don't even carry on that plot at all so I find it odd people keep bringing that up while saying those issues were better.
    There have been quite a few of those kind of plot points. Having every mutant ever on the same island working together leads to lots of "why didn't they just ask (random mutant perfect for this situation) for help? They're around and they all have phones, telepaths and teleportation tech. It would take 5 minutes." Its a problem when you have to keep ignoring things like that over and over again

    Dropping the plots from issues 1 and 2 are part of the problem. These four issues don't flow together well at all. If the narrative hook was the 'reveal' of these kids are cosplayers, then wow that was a terrible decision.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post

    I can't help myself but feel like the story at times feels like fan-fiction. Not the horrible "meme worthy" kind, which is infamous around the internet. But the rough kind where one feels the writer is meanig well but hasn't grasped how to handle the established characters and setting yet and is too focused on proping their OCs up.

    Which if it's intentional would be kind of meta i admit. Hence why i'm half suspecting the whole story to turn out as an universe fantasy by Buddy.
    It's all about OCs. The writer is selling their OCs to the readers, even trumping the context.

    I think this all being a fanfic by Buddy could be a way to close this without damage.

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