What if ... Green Goblin was a nobody?

[AnthonyO'Brien]

What if ... Green Goblin was a nobody?

Ditko clashed with Lee over the identity of GG. Steve felt he should be a total stranger who tried to be a somebody by committing crimes. A what-if could explore this in greater detail...

YOUR ideas on this or YOUR what-ifs?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Ditko clashed with Lee over the identity of GG.

NO he didn't.

Steve felt...

DITKO ALWAYS INTENDED NORMAN OSBORN TO BE THE GREEN GOBLIN. NO IFS. NO BUTS. NO WHAT IFS.

This is a dated and completely debunked rumor, please do not spread it.

[PCN24454]

NO he didn't.



DITKO ALWAYS INTENDED NORMAN OSBORN TO BE THE GREEN GOBLIN. NO IFS. NO BUTS. NO WHAT IFS.

This is a dated and completely debunked rumor, please do not spread it.

Well, what's your source? Green Goblin was always intended to be Peter's archnemesis which I'm skeptical of.

[Kingkalamari]

“I had a big argument with Steve Ditko, who was drawing the strip at the time. When we had to reveal the identity of the Green Goblin, I wanted him to turn out to be the father of Harry Osborn, and Steve didn’t like that idea,” Lee explained. “He said, ‘no, I don’t think he should be anybody we’ve seen before.’ I said ‘Why?’ He said ‘Well, in real life, the bad guy doesn’t always turn out to be someone you’ve known.’ And I said, ‘Steve, people have been reading this book for months, for years, waiting to see who the Green Goblin really is. If we make him somebody that they’ve never seen before, I think they’ll be disappointed — but if he turns out to be Harry’s father, I think that’s an unusual dramatic twist that we can play with in future stories.’ And Steve said ‘Yeah, well, that’s not the way it would be in real life.’ And I said ‘In real life, there’s nobody called The Green Goblin.’ And so Steve was never happy about that, but since I was the editor, we did it my way.” - Stan Lee, 2017

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/st...-green-goblin/

Not that Lee doesnt have a history of being a unreliable narrator, but he's about the only one who could verify what happened.

[Mistah K88]

I'd figure the unmasking would be much like the other people Spidey unmasked and straight up said. "I don't know who this is". I think Crime Master and Shocker had reveals like this.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Not that Lee doesnt have a history of being a unreliable narrator,

Stan Lee isn't an unreliable narrator. He's a dishonest narrator.

Per Abraham Riesman, "Stan Lee lied about little things, he lied about big things, he lied about strange things, and there's one massive, very consequential thing he may very well have lied about. If he did lie about that last thing—and there's substantial reason to believe he did—it completely changes his legacy."

Stan Lee never truly cared about the narrative elements of any of the comics he worked on (mostly because he was largely not involved with it).

...but he's about the only one who could verify what happened.

Nope. Steve Ditko when he was alive, time and time again confirmed that he intended Norman Osborn to be the Green Goblin:

"Now digest this: I knew from Day One, from the first GG story, who the GG would be. I absolutely knew because I planted him in J. Jonah Jameson’s businessman's club, it was where JJJ and the GG could be seen together. I planted them together in other stories where the GG would not appear in costume, action. I wanted JJJ’s and the GG’s lives to mix for later story drama involving more than just the two characters. I planted the GG’s son (same distinctive hair style) in the college issues for more dramatic involvement and storyline consequences. So how could there be any doubt, dispute, about who the GG had to turn out to be when unmasked?"

I mean think about it, if Ditko who was never shy talking about and complaining about Stan Lee or setting the record straight and was vocal about disagreements had a big stink about Norman being Green Goblin don't you think he would shout it from the rooftops. Instead he consistently denied this claim.

Steve Ditko had plotting credit from ASM#25 onwards, which for those keeping track includes the lead-up to the Crime Master 2-Parter (ASM#26-27) which had Norman Osborn's first named appearance in comics.

Ditko designed the characters and he had Norman Osborn with his distinct Cornrow hairstyle. His final issues presented Norman far more unsympathetically than how Lee-Romita depicted him.

And there's also visual foreshadowing. Go to ASM#27, take a look at this silhouette of the man behind the goblin costume and compare the silhouette of the hair-style to Norman introduced in the same comic and consider that in Ditko's run every character had a distinct unique hairstyle for the most part.

Silhouette Composite.jpg

[Kingkalamari]

Stan Lee isn't an unreliable narrator. He's a dishonest narrator.

Per Abraham Riesman, "Stan Lee lied about little things, he lied about big things, he lied about strange things, and there's one massive, very consequential thing he may very well have lied about. If he did lie about that last thing—and there's substantial reason to believe he did—it completely changes his legacy."

Stan Lee never truly cared about the narrative elements of any of the comics he worked on (mostly because he was largely not involved with it).



Nope. Steve Ditko when he was alive, time and time again confirmed that he intended Norman Osborn to be the Green Goblin:

"Now digest this: I knew from Day One, from the first GG story, who the GG would be. I absolutely knew because I planted him in J. Jonah Jameson’s businessman's club, it was where JJJ and the GG could be seen together. I planted them together in other stories where the GG would not appear in costume, action. I wanted JJJ’s and the GG’s lives to mix for later story drama involving more than just the two characters. I planted the GG’s son (same distinctive hair style) in the college issues for more dramatic involvement and storyline consequences. So how could there be any doubt, dispute, about who the GG had to turn out to be when unmasked?"

I mean think about it, if Ditko who was never shy talking about and complaining about Stan Lee or setting the record straight and was vocal about disagreements had a big stink about Norman being Green Goblin don't you think he would shout it from the rooftops. Instead he consistently denied this claim.

Steve Ditko had plotting credit from ASM#25 onwards, which for those keeping track includes the lead-up to the Crime Master 2-Parter (ASM#26-27) which had Norman Osborn's first named appearance in comics.

Ditko designed the characters and he had Norman Osborn with his distinct Cornrow hairstyle. His final issues presented Norman far more unsympathetically than how Lee-Romita depicted him.

And there's also visual foreshadowing. Go to ASM#27, take a look at this silhouette of the man behind the goblin costume and compare the silhouette of the hair-style to Norman introduced in the same comic and consider that in Ditko's run every character had a distinct unique hairstyle for the most part.

Silhouette Composite.jpg

Steve Ditko was a social recluse who never gave interviews, and hated Lee with a burning passion, the quote you gave was just a second hand account from Romita of what Ditko said, not a direct quote, so it's a bit wee dicey to say it's a great source, but suppose it's the best you'll get by Ditko standards. Ultimately I dont feel either is a particularly trustworthy quote, suppose it comes down to who you choose to believe in the situation.