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  1. #16
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Alicia's story right now is the road to Hell being paved with good intentions. Look at her life and what's she's endured. Her happiness and her new family (as crazy and fantastic as they are) put her in a constant worrying and defensive position. Her actions with Lyja and her father are easily rationalized and justified. Would having her husband and kids beating the crap out of Lyja be better for anyone?

    But she's taken a second step over that line and that second step is always far easier.
    Considering that her actions towards Lyja as well as both Ben and Johnny’s reactions are completely OOC and flat out ignore the majority of the history they share with her, I’d rather neither and instead would want to read a story that actually reads like it actually has a logical connectivity to a character’s history as opposed to flat out ignoring most of it.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Considering that her actions towards Lyja as well as both Ben and Johnny’s reactions are completely OOC and flat out ignore the majority of the history they share with her, I’d rather neither and instead would want to read a story that actually reads like it actually has a logical connectivity to a character’s history as opposed to flat out ignoring most of it.
    Lyja impersonated a blind woman in order to spy on the FF. What part of Lyja's a scumbag piece of excrement needs more explanation?
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  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I have to say I really don't like how Slott is handling both Alicia and Lyja.
    Lyja is total filth and it's about time she was written as such. As for Alicia, it's totally understandable how she can finally get fed up and use what she has access to to stop from being a constant victim, hostage, and pawn.
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  4. #19
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    Johnny impregnating Victorious would be interesting, for some reason I could see it happening

    I for some reason see Lyja & Sky getting closer to stick it to Johnny

  5. #20
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    I wonder if Johnny banging Zora is what will lead to Doom doing something to him as could happen in the next issues.
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  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I agree with you. I guess Slott has forgotten that she was forced into impersonating Alicia. Eventually Lyja was accepted by the rest of the FF. IIRC Ben was interested in her for a while.
    Does anything about Ben and his history with Alicia suggest that an interest by him in Lyja isn't totally out of character?
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  7. #22
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Lyja is total filth and it's about time she was written as such. As for Alicia, it's totally understandable how she can finally get fed up and use what she has access to to stop from being a constant victim, hostage, and pawn.
    I don't know why you are so hostile about Lyja. Don't you think Alicia is manipulating the whole thing? Don't forget, Lyja was a pawn of the Skrull empire who happened to fall in love with Johnny during the time she was impersonating Johnny. IMO DeFalco gave a far more sympathetic view of the character back in those days and she was eventually accepted by the rest of the FF. She rarely appeared after the Heroes Reborn/Onslaught era but this was Johnny and Lyja's last meeting in FF #416. They came to an understanding about their whole crazy relationship.


  8. #23
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Does anything about Ben and his history with Alicia suggest that an interest by him in Lyja isn't totally out of character?
    Be that as it may, it actually happened in Tom DeFalco's FF...it was very brief and he never asked her out. But it shows that at that point in time that she was accepted. Besides, I think she's the only cute Skrull


  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Be that as it may, it actually happened in Tom DeFalco's FF...it was very brief and he never asked her out. But it shows that at that point in time that she was accepted. Besides, I think she's the only cute Skrull
    That's the thing with different writers. They are not always on the same page. At this point in time Johnny, Ben, and Alicia all have a negative view of Lyja when in DeFalco's stories, she was accepted. Based on what she did and how she came into the franchise, the current reaction seems far more understandable.
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  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I don't know why you are so hostile about Lyja. Don't you think Alicia is manipulating the whole thing? Don't forget, Lyja was a pawn of the Skrull empire who happened to fall in love with Johnny during the time she was impersonating Johnny. IMO DeFalco gave a far more sympathetic view of the character back in those days and she was eventually accepted by the rest of the FF. She rarely appeared after the Heroes Reborn/Onslaught era but this was Johnny and Lyja's last meeting in FF #416. They came to an understanding about their whole crazy relationship.
    It's truth that DeFalco made Lyja more sympathetic. She was his pet character. As for Alicia manipulating the whole thing, that's a pretty far-fetched speculation. Current Lyja was hiding her true identity when she popped up in Future Foundation. She also pulled sneaky stuff with Laura Green and whatever was going on in Secret Invasion. Even at her best she doesn't do straight-forward. As for her being "forced" to impersonate Alicia, she was as forced as any military operative who was "only following orders".

    As to Johnny having feelings for her, Johnny is a slut. We saw that this issue, we saw that back when he originally hooked up with Alicia. As you say, Lyja is a cute skrull, but that's very possible to make her more acceptable to humans. I do not think much of the character Lyja. Her very existence is a swipe of a Legion of Super-Heroes plot and although I can accept evil and morally challenged characters, the FF's reaction to her in the later DeFalco days made no damn sense. At least with the current situation, the reactions of characters make sense based on past events.
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  11. #26
    Incredible Member The BaRoN's Avatar
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    Disappointed with Slotts reaction on Twitter mocking those who said he canít right anything positive.

    Claims no one wants to read that stuff and once again saying he was paid to make Spider-Manís life miserable.

    And people wonder why comics donít sell that well compared to manga when every story is just depressing.

    He even said soap opera stuff is great.

    As for Lyja, she deserved better and spent more time doing good for the FF during Defalcos run and actually became a great character in the end.

    I donít mind Johnny sleeping with Zora but to cheat and be a piece of trash about it is not great reading in a FF comic, keep that sh@t in the xmen or Ironman.
    Last edited by The BaRoN; 05-13-2021 at 12:07 AM.

  12. #27
    Spectacular Member Doom'nGloom's Avatar
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    Man I wish Slott was more into writing stories that do characters justice. Instead he's arguing with people on twitter.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Is this the first time Johnny has actually cheated on someone he was in a relationship with? The only thing about him I found a little sleazy was that he started dating/sleeping with Medusa (the sister of Crystal, his ex) while Medusa was separated from Black Bolt.

  14. #29
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    That's the thing with different writers. They are not always on the same page. At this point in time Johnny, Ben, and Alicia all have a negative view of Lyja when in DeFalco's stories, she was accepted. Based on what she did and how she came into the franchise, the current reaction seems far more understandable.
    Except the thing is, these stories happened. If the characters had a positive view of her then, it makes absolutely no sense that they just suddenly have a negative view of her now, especially for reasons that had already been forgiven long ago. That’s negative character development at that point and bad writing especially when the writer is giving no actual reason for the characters to be harking on something that was already dealt with.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Except the thing is, these stories happened. If the characters had a positive view of her then, it makes absolutely no sense that they just suddenly have a negative view of her now, especially for reasons that had already been forgiven long ago. That’s negative character development at that point and bad writing especially when the writer is giving no actual reason for the characters to be harking on something that was already dealt with.
    Even in Secret Invasion: Johnny was HAPPY to find Lyja in the Negative Zone, she was the one that basically indicated that she was doing the whole self discovery thing and resisted his desires for her to stay with him (going on recollection, not digging up the issues)

    Unlike most of the folks here (or anywhere), I've been rooting for the Slott issues, really looked forward to him coming aboard, but this issue really irked me. Johnny cheating, to my current recollection, is a new thing. He makes some boneheaded decisions, sure (how could hooking up with Medusa EVER work out well?) Lyja acting like she did BEFORE she was being controlled: Out of character. Alicia using her father's tricks? What? I can understand her distaste of Lyja's actions, impersonating Sky, impersonating HER, again OOC as it was, but her father was a monster, emulating him seems wrong. Then covering up her actions? I'm sure Slott's thinking is she's a woman in a corner protecting her growing family. But Alicia's greatest appeal has always been her decency, honesty and empathy.

    Since the above posted Onslaught days I've waited and waited for Johnny and Lyja to finally get back together, figured it was something that was inevitable. But this terrible mess, including having Johnny emotionally abuse Sky like this, pretty much is killing that option. I didn't like the IDEA of Sky, but the poor character left her entire world and family for the guy and he sneaks off to slip it to a woman who's obviously just using him as a disposable man-whore (you'd think she'd accidentally kill him in the act, never understood the uber-powerful getting it on with non-super strength folks). He KNOWS she can sense what he's up to, might as well go cheat on your girlfriend when you know you're miked up for a live twitch feed.

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