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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    I posted this in the other thread, but had to spoil block it...

    Oh god.

    What if he knocks up Victorious?

    Then she marries Doom.

    Then has the baby and Doom thinks it’s his.

    But it’s Johnny Storm’s baby.

    LOL

    Now THAT is a soap opera!



    Also.... Alicia uses the Puppet Master’s clay to control Lyja. I totally didn’t see that coming.
    I totally saw/agree with this highly soap opera type convention.
    And, if so, this will create interesting stories; Victorious may be a future FF member even?
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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I’ve got to say that after this issue, I really hope that this isn’t how Slott plans to just leave things off with Lyja because that was deeply unsatisfying that not only does Johnny just outright reject her and have Alecia act completely out of character in controlling her to leave Earth but Slott treats her as though her entire existence and relationship with Johnny was solely defined by her impersonating Alecia despite there being a complex relationship between the two beyond that single part of her history. So at that point, Slott seems to be ignoring everything that came after that as if he’s putting her down so he can make his creation Sky look better and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    It is possible that Alicia knows more than is shown. Maybe something else the child told her about her abduction and stuff

    So Alicia has powers too, when you think about it. I think revenge and care for Your Stuff and related, is good enough cause for her to do this.

    But I don't think it is over by a long shot either.
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  3. #33
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCoyote View Post
    Even in Secret Invasion: Johnny was HAPPY to find Lyja in the Negative Zone, she was the one that basically indicated that she was doing the whole self discovery thing and resisted his desires for her to stay with him (going on recollection, not digging up the issues)
    It wasn't happy to my impression. At first it was disbelief and shock, then after a brief scuffle he was skeptical over her explanation that she was actually saving their lives by shunting the FF HQ to the Negative Zone.



    And yes, they did kiss and he protested her remaining behind, but there were other emotions mixed in with the happiness I'd bet.
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipHopAvenger View Post
    Johnny impregnating Victorious would be interesting, for some reason I could see it happening

    I for some reason see Lyja & Sky getting closer to stick it to Johnny
    Lyja knew of her planet and people and that they were incurious about others and the rest of the universe. There could be a story in there.

    Like maybe Skrulls have been there (not sure what that could mean but it could)
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  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The BaRoN View Post
    Disappointed with Slotts reaction on Twitter mocking those who said he can’t right anything positive.

    Claims no one wants to read that stuff and once again saying he was paid to make Spider-Man’s life miserable.

    And people wonder why comics don’t sell that well compared to manga when every story is just depressing.

    He even said soap opera stuff is great.

    As for Lyja, she deserved better and spent more time doing good for the FF during Defalcos run and actually became a great character in the end.

    I don’t mind Johnny sleeping with Zora but to cheat and be a piece of trash about it is not great reading in a FF comic, keep that sh@t in the xmen or Ironman.
    We may find out more about this soulmate thing and I suspect it is bogus, or part of a longer going plot.

    I wouldn't now be unsurprised if Lyja's knowledge of Sky's planet does indicate some thing yet to be known.

    Maybe they have something 'else' going on...

    I actually love soap stuff in comics. It always makes sense because we always have to see characters in other than smash moments.

    Serialized fiction/media is always about character arcs and the changes of personality and how it resonates to the larger cast.
    ~ Oberon ~
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  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    spoilers:
    I’ve got to say that after this issue, I really hope that this isn’t how Slott plans to just leave things off with Lyja because that was deeply unsatisfying that not only does Johnny just outright reject her and have Alecia act completely out of character in controlling her to leave Earth but Slott treats her as though her entire existence and relationship with Johnny was solely defined by her impersonating Alecia despite there being a complex relationship between the two beyond that single part of her history. So at that point, Slott seems to be ignoring everything that came after that as if he’s putting her down so he can make his creation Sky look better.
    end of spoilers
    Question: Are all Skrulls capable of hypnosis? I think I have heard that, but Skrulls like Super Skrull have "super" hypnosis.

    could the child be controlling Alicia as she also has a hated backstory with Lyja? Just a thought.

    Usually when a character is very "out of character" in a comic book, they're controlled or not in their right mind, etc.

    People change, but yes, the FF did eventually accept Lyja to some degree. But the impact of some years and Skrull Invasion stuff may have changed more than a few minds about all this.

    If Zora conceives, this baby will be highly powerful, no?
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  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    It's truth that DeFalco made Lyja more sympathetic. She was his pet character. As for Alicia manipulating the whole thing, that's a pretty far-fetched speculation. Current Lyja was hiding her true identity when she popped up in Future Foundation. She also pulled sneaky stuff with Laura Green and whatever was going on in Secret Invasion. Even at her best she doesn't do straight-forward. As for her being "forced" to impersonate Alicia, she was as forced as any military operative who was "only following orders".

    As to Johnny having feelings for her, Johnny is a slut. We saw that this issue, we saw that back when he originally hooked up with Alicia. As you say, Lyja is a cute skrull, but that's very possible to make her more acceptable to humans. I do not think much of the character Lyja. Her very existence is a swipe of a Legion of Super-Heroes plot and although I can accept evil and morally challenged characters, the FF's reaction to her in the later DeFalco days made no damn sense. At least with the current situation, the reactions of characters make sense based on past events.
    Lyja was clearly enthralled to Skrulls/empire.
    But we have seen other 'pretty' Skrulls who end up mating with non-Skrulls, Princess Anelle (sic) with Mar-Vell.

    So it is established that Skrulls may sexually and romantically be compatible with non Skrulls and that is a fact.

    Lyja, and possibly now Alicia (not really) are victims like Wanda, in the hands of writers who may not understand the character and use them for contrivance.
    Although her creation and original arc were thought out well, subsequent writers have just used her for any reason at all.
    I really thought she would be more effective and realistic in Invasion. A wasted opportunity.

    I think there is a reason why so much of the current plots involve "the many loves of Johnny Storm".

    An obvious one would be the wedding isn't going to happen and Doom will re-declare his hatred of the 4.

    Whether Zora becomes a permanant part of the plot/extra cast will be the question.

    If this is study of the man-child and nearly every past love was seen or mentioned (Dorrie? Xzygi or however spelled, from the original Secret Wars?? ?) yes, it smells like a referendum and it may be going somewhere.
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    It's a referendum on the others too. Sue as faux mom to Johnny.

    Alicia, whatever that will be.

    I think for sure, there is a lot more to Sky than many of us may have thought, too.
    ~ Oberon ~
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  9. #39
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It is possible that Alicia knows more than is shown. Maybe something else the child told her about her abduction and stuff

    So Alicia has powers too, when you think about it. I think revenge and care for Your Stuff and related, is good enough cause for her to do this.

    But I don't think it is over by a long shot either.
    Yeah, Alicia could call herself Puppet Mistress if she wanted to... the only issue is her blindness, doesn't she need to feel someone to know what they look like? That must make it hard for her to get an exact likeness. So she can make perfect sculptures of her friends and family all day long, but the same can't be said for the villains. And she can't control them if it's not a perfect likeness.
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  10. #40
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Except the thing is, these stories happened. If the characters had a positive view of her then, it makes absolutely no sense that they just suddenly have a negative view of her now, especially for reasons that had already been forgiven long ago. That’s negative character development at that point and bad writing especially when the writer is giving no actual reason for the characters to be harking on something that was already dealt with.
    If stories that happened need to be accepted, then this latest story also needs to be accepted. You're certainly free to call this negative character development and bad writing, but I'm going to refer to previous feelings of Lyja as bad writing in order to fit a writer's pet character into a role. Lyja did do a very bad thing and the people she hurt are longer forgiving her for it when she's not showing any growth as a character herself.. Seems like a perfectly acceptable response to me.
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  11. #41
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    We may find out more about this soulmate thing and I suspect it is bogus, or part of a longer going plot.

    I wouldn't now be unsurprised if Lyja's knowledge of Sky's planet does indicate some thing yet to be known.

    Maybe they have something 'else' going on...

    I actually love soap stuff in comics. It always makes sense because we always have to see characters in other than smash moments.

    Serialized fiction/media is always about character arcs and the changes of personality and how it resonates to the larger cast.
    The soulmate thing is something I am thinking could be a long term plot.Reed, Sue, and Johnny all got armbands and frankly, Johnny should be having doubts about Sky being his "soulmate" or not. A prudent plan would be for Johnny to tell Reed and Sue about his doubts, especially how the armbands can be removed. Reed and Sue remove each other armbands (if they can) and Reed goes to town examining them.

    Spyre kinda fills me with doubt. Even in the original "Point of Origin" story, we're accepting they have the surveillance necessary to know exactly when the FF are taking their relatively secret flight? That's pretty good intel. Something's gotta be up.
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  12. #42
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It is possible that Alicia knows more than is shown.
    I wonder how Alicia in Slott's Silver Surfer compares to Alicia here. Might there be clues from Slott's SS run that would explain her behavior?
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  13. #43
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It is possible that Alicia knows more than is shown. Maybe something else the child told her about her abduction and stuff

    So Alicia has powers too, when you think about it. I think revenge and care for Your Stuff and related, is good enough cause for her to do this.

    But I don't think it is over by a long shot either.
    I have a hard time accepting anyone not seeing this as Alicia going down a dark road.
    I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
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  14. #44
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Lyja was clearly enthralled to Skrulls/empire.
    But we have seen other 'pretty' Skrulls who end up mating with non-Skrulls, Princess Anelle (sic) with Mar-Vell.

    So it is established that Skrulls may sexually and romantically be compatible with non Skrulls and that is a fact.

    Lyja, and possibly now Alicia (not really) are victims like Wanda, in the hands of writers who may not understand the character and use them for contrivance.
    Although her creation and original arc were thought out well, subsequent writers have just used her for any reason at all.
    I really thought she would be more effective and realistic in Invasion. A wasted opportunity.

    I think there is a reason why so much of the current plots involve "the many loves of Johnny Storm".

    An obvious one would be the wedding isn't going to happen and Doom will re-declare his hatred of the 4.

    Whether Zora becomes a permanant part of the plot/extra cast will be the question.

    If this is study of the man-child and nearly every past love was seen or mentioned (Dorrie? Xzygi or however spelled, from the original Secret Wars?? ?) yes, it smells like a referendum and it may be going somewhere.
    Lyja's introduction was a way to justify Johnny hooking up with and marrying Alicia. John Byrne tried something that added to the drama, but made Johnny look like an a-hole. Alicia deciding to pursue Johnny was something that was awkward at best and Lyja's introduction at least exonerated Alicia's character.

    As for the look at the lives and loves of Johnny Storm, he's seemingly heading to a major event. That "Flame On" biggest change in 60 years page posted here a while back seems to be a harbinger of something. Johnny himself has made a variety of poor choices in partners. Whether it was Victorious this last issue, Alicia in Byrne's days, or even Medusa, Johnny has a history that includes choices most of us would say were ill-chosen. He is a mess and despite numerous writers growing him up, always manages to return to being a man-child with little emotional maturity.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    The soulmate thing is something I am thinking could be a long term plot.Reed, Sue, and Johnny all got armbands and frankly, Johnny should be having doubts about Sky being his "soulmate" or not. A prudent plan would be for Johnny to tell Reed and Sue about his doubts, especially how the armbands can be removed. Reed and Sue remove each other armbands (if they can) and Reed goes to town examining them.

    Spyre kinda fills me with doubt. Even in the original "Point of Origin" story, we're accepting they have the surveillance necessary to know exactly when the FF are taking their relatively secret flight? That's pretty good intel. Something's gotta be up.
    I think the soulmate thing might be not just someone you’re romantically involved with, but could also be someone you’re friends with like someone who matches your energy and vibes, but if that’s where this story is going, I feel it could be handled better

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