Alas I’m stubbornly Pro Lyja, though largely because I got into Marvel through MC2 so Defalco’s Fantastic Five...
Alas I’m stubbornly Pro Lyja, though largely because I got into Marvel through MC2 so Defalco’s Fantastic Five...
Difference there is that there is story written around the fact that she was forgiven, whether you may like it or not. In this case, there isn’t so much as an explanation for them suddenly harking on her as if none of the previous developments happened. To just jump from the established relationship of characters simply to this simply to fit into the mold of what Slott is doing in this story is both bad and lazy writing. It reeks of a writer not bitching to do their homework before writing a character.
They have. In fact, there are many former foes the FF have gotten on better terms with. But there have also been decades of stories supporting Medusa as an ally and friend of the team.
Also, there was the retcon of Medusa not remembering her past when she fought with the Frightful Four. This explanation works better than "she was forced to" which is used for Lyja. I can certainly accept Lyja being exonerated but she's been written in shades of grey, even during her purer exploits. And my problem is less with Lyja than with Ben, Johnny, and Alicia not only being cool with her, but being enamored of her. Johnny, I get, as he thinks with his little head. But seriously, Ben had an interest in the woman who disguised herself as his blind ex-girlfriend and married his friend and teammate?
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
Looking at the DeFalco days and today's FF, there are big differences in how the characters are positioned in their lives. Even IF the forgiveness is accepted, Ben and Alicia are married with kids. Does a family want the woman who impersonated Mom to hang around now that they've found a happier place? Nicki's also brought back memories Alicia had of her hostage time. If Mom ain't happy, ain't no one happy. At best, Lyja's the crazy buddy we had growing up who hasn't grown up themselves and we realize there's no longer a place in our lives for them despite our coming to terms with them.
Johnny hasn't grown. He still wants to be with any woman he sees and Lyja's a good example of that. Also, see Alicia (Ben's ex) back in Byrne days, Medusa (Crystal's sister) with the Avengers, and Victorious in this very issue. Sky was his first choice, Victorious was his number two and being kept warm with flirting. Had Victorious not worked out and Lyja not been made to leave, I expect he may have spent the night with her.
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
I did go back and reread the interactions between Johnny and Lyja in Secret Invasion. SHE had moved on, it seemed, so her coming onto him here seems a bit off.
As far as forgiveness, The FF continually let Doom back into their lives, someone who's tried to murder them, tortured them, possess their child, and all types of other horrible things. So they seem pretty maleable when it comes to holding grudges.
Agree Johnny hasn't grown, in this book. Really wish he would. Maybe that's the giant change coming up. He actually becomes an adult after 60 years.
Doom's an example which needs to be addressed. Since FF Annual 2 (1964), Reed and Doom have been connected and have a long backstory. Doom's also had considerable story putting him in a more admirable state. The idea is there is hope for Victor as MOST writers support. As horrible as many of Doom's actions have been, he did deliver Reed and Sue's daughter AND started the process that led to the saving of the multiverse in Secret Wars. And yes, I do agree the FF's choices can be puzzling.
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
One thing that's changed is that this is no longer just about her and Johnny. At the end of this scene she says "Family always comes first", and she's never had a real family until now. Becoming a parent can change people. She now has chidren to care about and protect. She knows Lyja's presence upsets her kids, especially her daughter. That protectiveness may have pushed her to do something that she wouldn't ordinarily do.
I suppose that it the one 'clue' to the nay 'family comes first'.
But has anyone thought that, that is not really Alicia, especially as we say someone imitate her very well, earlier.
What if that is the child and not Alicia? So bam, on the bait and switch. Alicia wouldn't do this to Lyja, but that kid might....
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
I just posted to the wedding thread, but I've the feeling that
Alicia is not - it's the kid, doing that to Lyja.
Remember I asked about Skrulls and hypnosis?
And also, does this clay even work on Alien minds?
But if a Skrull used it on a Skrull? Hmmm?
And I know someone can't or won't accept it, but the reason why comics are like soap operas, is because you do have to accept the story or arc, that characters do change.
Various evil doers on soaps become heroes. Sometimes they become villains again.
But sometimes good people become evil too. It really is a convention that exists and is a primary way of telling stories. Even these kind.
Lyja is far more interesting as a flawed character who may become good again.
Isn't that what Dr. Doom is about, in spades?
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
I'm not so sure Nicki's behind this. I mean, it's possible, but the only hypnosis from Skrulls I know of is that with the Super Skrull. And Alicia had already used the clay on her father before the kids were introduced. About the only point I can come up with to support this is the Ben murderous anger at reed and that could be the result of action against ben's kids, even for a good reson.
I don't remember the Puppet Master's clay ever being used on a non-human before, but I'm inclined to think it's certainly possible.
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
Lyja is a piece of trash and Alicia still hating her makes total sense. She never forgave her and she has every right not to. The FF forgiving her is out of character after she sexually assaulted Johnny and she was going to do it again this issue. She's a rapist.
Last edited by Crimz; 05-13-2021 at 09:54 PM.
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For the kids to be behind this, yes, they would have to know about Puppet Master and his clay but then again that can be introduced retroactively.
This part doesn't make sense since the FF are shown to be TOO sympathetic to their villains. Especially since they had Lyja living with them before Heroes Reborn.
Last edited by Triniking1234; 05-13-2021 at 04:40 PM.
"Cable was right!"