The Superman Fan Fiction Workshop

[Bored at 3:00AM]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...iJsUMiDG8/edit

Lightning strikes in this penultimate chapter that will change the DC Universe forever!

[RobinGA]

It's been a rough week for me. But I seem to finally be recovering.

I found your story interesting. I did have a few questions, maybe this is all
gets explained by the second part.

Typically, Superman isn't trying to bring back Krypton. Indeed, in many of the
stories and films he is standing athwart the Kryptonian menace who are trying to do that
saying no. Certainly, that is the point of view in both Man of Steel and Superman and Lois.

But it is different here. Clark's point of view could use some explanation. Why is the Last Son of Krypton
trying to revive it, when he usually goes the other way? What about the consequences for people on Earth
and the galaxy or is he just desperate, or is his motivation something more than that?

The timeline is also interesting. Because as you phrase it in your writing when you branch the timeline the original
time still remains in place, but you are creating an alternative part of the universe. It raises the question as to what
is exactly the point? If Krypton is still going to be dead, why revive it somewhere else? Does Superman plan to go live there
if Krypton is revived?

I'm sure you get into the nature of Krypton more in your conclusion. But we've gotten various images of Krypton: scientific paradise,
people indifferent to the problem of climate change, the rule of the castes, and so on. How exactly do you see Krypton? How well
would Superman fit in this society, or is it his intention to return to planet Earth?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's been a rough week for me. But I seem to finally be recovering.

I found your story interesting. I did have a few questions, maybe this is all
gets explained by the second part.

Typically, Superman isn't trying to bring back Krypton. Indeed, in many of the
stories and films he is standing athwart the Kryptonian menace who are trying to do that
saying no. Certainly, that is the point of view in both Man of Steel and Superman and Lois.

But it is different here. Clark's point of view could use some explanation. Why is the Last Son of Krypton
trying to revive it, when he usually goes the other way? What about the consequences for people on Earth
and the galaxy or is he just desperate, or is his motivation something more than that?

The timeline is also interesting. Because as you phrase it in your writing when you branch the timeline the original
time still remains in place, but you are creating an alternative part of the universe. It raises the question as to what
is exactly the point? If Krypton is still going to be dead, why revive it somewhere else? Does Superman plan to go live there
if Krypton is revived?

I'm sure you get into the nature of Krypton more in your conclusion. But we've gotten various images of Krypton: scientific paradise,
people indifferent to the problem of climate change, the rule of the castes, and so on. How exactly do you see Krypton? How well
would Superman fit in this society, or is it his intention to return to planet Earth?

Clark is conflicted in the earlier chapters because he wants to be absolutely certain that any attempt to save Krypton would create a parallel timeline in which Lara & Jor-El get to live on and raise their son on Krypton without erasing the current timeline in which he arrives on Earth, becomes Superman and meets Lois. He talks about this with Dick on the rooftop in Gotham, then again with Lois in the Fortress, and once more with Lara & Jor-El's AI and one more time when Clark assures Lois he'll be back. Honestly, I thought I was being too repetitive by bringing it up too often, but, since you still ended up thinking Clark somehow wants to stay on Krypton, I guess I need to make it even clearer

As to why Clark would want to save Lara & Jor-El from dying horribly along with billions of others when it is within Superman's power to save them...I honestly don't know what to tell you aside from--because he's %&*$ing Superman. He saves people by doing the impossible. It's his whole shtick.

The rest of your questions in regards to Krypton will be answered the conclusion. The cryptic answer would be "Yes."

Thanks for reading. Hope your next week is less hectic than the last one was for you.

[RobinGA]

Thanks for your answers.

I have found the q and a helpful as I think through larger issues with my own writing.

There has been lots of discussion about Krypton around here.

Probably more to come I would guess.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...7-LuqcgcE/edit

The mind-bending conclusion!

[RobinGA]

Thanks for posting this.

I'll be honest that it will take several reads to understand it all.

What you have done is perhaps to create an Earth 1.5. One that is an
amalgam that includes elements of what we used to call Earth-1 and Earth-2.

I'm an old Earth-2 person because of my love of the Golden Age. I loved
all of the Earth-2 elements.

Especially seeing young Helena in your piece.

There is an ongoing debate about just how old Dick Grayson was when he became
Bruce Wayne's ward. I agreed with your decision to make him younger, rather than about to enter
his teen years.

Dr. Who would call Krypton a fixed point in time. The show has lately gone off the rails, but
especially during the David Tennant and Matt Smith years had a lot about time theory.

It of course makes it interesting to think how time will unfold when these two different streams
or rivers will operate in the future.

Things began to open up in America beginning around 1956 when you have the Montgomery
Bus Boycott, along with a reaction to Sputnik in 1957 which spurred more spending on science, math, education
in general. Eisnehower despised Joseph McCarthy, helped to bring how down with LBJ and Nixon. Talk
about a unique political alliance!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Thanks for posting this.

I'll be honest that it will take several reads to understand it all.

What you have done is perhaps to create an Earth 1.5. One that is an
amalgam that includes elements of what we used to call Earth-1 and Earth-2.

I'm an old Earth-2 person because of my love of the Golden Age. I loved
all of the Earth-2 elements.

You're right, I wasn't really trying to recreate Earth-One or Two exactly as they appeared in the comics with these stories. All my fanfics are set in a DCU that is meant to represent a primordial world that hypothetically exists outside of the real comics that were largely published as disposable entertainment for children. As a result, I've incorporated the strongest elements from all the various comics continuities, in addition to the various radio, TV, and movie adaptations that have been done with these characters over the past eight decades.

Never fear, though, as the two conjoined timelines seperated, they each became more like their classic incarnations. However, in those early years, like in the comics themselves, pesky concerns like continuity were a whole lot more...malleable.

[Jon Clark]

Been enjoying the Earth 2/Earth 1 origin.

Just posted two of the three "issues" i wrote about Kara landing first instead of Kal-L over at https://www.alternatehistory.com/for...bronze.526272/
Hopefully the link works as i can't recall if the forum folder is members only or not.

I sort of lost momentum after the third issue.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Been enjoying the Earth 2/Earth 1 origin.

Just posted two of the three "issues" i wrote about Kara landing first instead of Kal-L over at https://www.alternatehistory.com/for...bronze.526272/
Hopefully the link works as i can't recall if the forum folder is members only or not.

I sort of lost momentum after the third issue.

Thanks for checking it out. Anything feedback on how to improve it? It's a bit of a big swing trying to connect old continuity changes to the characters' psychology, but the idea tickled me. Hope it worked for you.

I tried that link but it says I need to log in first. Is there an option to view it without registering with my email?

[RobinGA]

I'm going to start posting the second screenplay of the Robin and Power Girl chronicles.
I've tried different techniques in writing the series: the second screenplay is a little different in that it lacks
a narrative, cohesive story. Instead, it is focusing on selected issues from years 8-14 of the Grayson marriage.
The idea for it borrows some from a history book by Catherine Bowen, The Most Dangerous Man in America:
Scenes from the Life of Benjamin Franklin.

The first two parts of the story also have my homage to A Death in the Family, the classic 1988 stories that saw the death
of the Jason Todd Robin. But the story is a little different here. But it also allows Robin to have to deal with death, pain,
suffering, and memory. In this part of the story a new Robin has been killed by the Joker. Robin and Power Girl have to leave
Wichita, to try and set things right in Gotham City.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...JUfDLKQB0/edit

[Jon Clark]

Thanks for checking it out. Anything feedback on how to improve it? It's a bit of a big swing trying to connect old continuity changes to the characters' psychology, but the idea tickled me. Hope it worked for you.

The actual mechanics with the conclusion left me a bit puzzled. I get your intent of this being a point in the timeline where both the Golden Age and Silver Age histories were sharing the page, but I couldn't quite follow the way the divergence worked.

For example, when you referenced the adult Dick Grayson being in one place while a few blocks away the kid acrobat version was performing, I wondered what prevented the original Robin from visiting Haly's Circus upon hearing the Flying Graysons were on the bill. If you were going for the idea that there was only one Superman/Batman/Lois in existence at a time with hypertime sort of swapping them at points- that isn't the way it read. On the other hand, it didn't seem to be your intent that newspapers had pictures of contemporaneous Superman and Superboy rescues sharing the front page.

And if you ever get a chance (and haven't read it before) look for Scott S Duncan's Faster Than A Speeding Bullet for a different take on the Golden Age Superman co existing with the Silver Age on the same planet.

I tried that link but it says I need to log in first. Is there an option to view it without registering with my email?

I think you probably have to be a member. I'm debating putting them up at the 5 Earths Site as Elseworlds. I'd originally posted them years ago when that group was on Yahoo. Now they aren't on the current site (since most of the old non-continuity stuff didn't survive the transition). Split on whether reposting there is repetitive or if the turnover in readers make it worth the effort. If i post it I'll put up a link.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The actual mechanics with the conclusion left me a bit puzzled. I get your intent of this being a point in the timeline where both the Golden Age and Silver Age histories were sharing the page, but I couldn't quite follow the way the divergence worked.

For example, when you referenced the adult Dick Grayson being in one place while a few blocks away the kid acrobat version was performing, I wondered what prevented the original Robin from visiting Haly's Circus upon hearing the Flying Graysons were on the bill. If you were going for the idea that there was only one Superman/Batman/Lois in existence at a time with hypertime sort of swapping them at points- that isn't the way it read. On the other hand, it didn't seem to be your intent that newspapers had pictures of contemporaneous Superman and Superboy rescues sharing the front page.

That's fair. The idea is that the two Hypertime streams are weaving in and out of each other so that everyone can interact with everyone else, blissfully unaware of their counterparts, at least for the time being. Once the two streams diverge enough, then the elder Superman of Earth-Two could visit the perpetually young Superman of Earth-One, but that wouldn't happen until the mid-sixties.

At this early stage, though, they're existing side by side without even being aware of it. For instance, someone could buy a Daily Planet talking about the latest exploits of Superman and the picture could appear to be of either a older or younger man depending upon which Hypertime stream they happened to be in at that particular time, and they wouldn't even notice the difference thanks to the mind-whammy that occurs whenever time is acting wonky.

To use your Haley's Circus example, the elder Dick Grayson wouldn't even know about it being in town because it wouldn't exist in his specific Hypertime stream, but someone from his law firm could easily go there and not make the connection between the young kid named Dick Grayson they saw and their own coworker.

Another great example would be New Frontier, which takes place during this period of time. The older married Superman meets the newly minted Robin at the end of that story and finds nothing odd whatsoever because his memories would automatically adjust to the match the stream he's currently in, without even being aware that anything hinky is going on.

I didn't want to get too stuck in the weeds with the timey-whimey of it all, but I could certainly add some more specifics to clarify things a bit more.

Thanks for the feedback. Always appreciated

[Jon Clark]

That's fair. The idea is that the two Hypertime streams are weaving in and out of each other so that everyone can interact with everyone else, blissfully unaware of their counterparts, at least for the time being. Once the two streams diverge enough, then the elder Superman of Earth-Two could visit the perpetually young Superman of Earth-One, but that wouldn't happen until the mid-sixties.

At this early stage, though, they're existing side by side without even being aware of it. For instance, someone could buy a Daily Planet talking about the latest exploits of Superman and the picture could appear to be of either a older or younger man depending upon which Hypertime stream they happened to be in at that particular time, and they wouldn't even notice the difference thanks to the mind-whammy that occurs whenever time is acting wonky.

To use your Haley's Circus example, the elder Dick Grayson wouldn't even know about it being in town because it wouldn't exist in his specific Hypertime stream, but someone from his law firm could easily go there and not make the connection between the young kid named Dick Grayson they saw and their own coworker.

Another great example would be New Frontier, which takes place during this period of time. The older married Superman meets the newly minted Robin at the end of that story and finds nothing odd whatsoever because his memories would automatically adjust to the match the stream he's currently in, without even being aware that anything hinky is going on.

I didn't want to get too stuck in the weeds with the timey-whimey of it all, but I could certainly add some more specifics to clarify things a bit more.

Thanks for the feedback. Always appreciated

I get the problem with not wanting to get too into detail. Had my own hypertime idea that seemed simple in my head but became a never ending dialog from a character,

I kept thinking you were intending a situation where everyone (except the main characters and some of their supporting cast) were weaving in and out of two Hypertimelines. Something along the lines of :
1)There are two realities but only one is dominant at a time. People either exist at a given moment with a pre-teen Dick Grayson or with an adult Dick Grayson Esquire but never both.
2) On August 21, 1957 the Joker robbed the Spiffany jewelry store and battled Batman". Whether that was a young adult Bruce Wayne or a slightly older Dick Grayson in the Batsuit, both remember the battle as if they had been the Batman involved.

But your prose seemed to say:
1) There are two Dick Graysons co-existing in the same reality, they just never cross paths nor does anyone else connected to them. There is some mental fog that prevents people from connecting the two in any way.
2) "On August 21, 1957 the Joker robbed Spiffany's and battled Batman. Somehow young adult Bruce and older Dick Grayson continue on with one having been the Batman involved and the other never having any idea the robbery or battle occurred.

Your reply above seems to be something even more complex but incorporating both of my interpretations.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I get the problem with not wanting to get too into detail. Had my own hypertime idea that seemed simple in my head but became a never ending dialog from a character,

I kept thinking you were intending a situation where everyone (except the main characters and some of their supporting cast) were weaving in and out of two Hypertimelines. Something along the lines of :
1)There are two realities but only one is dominant at a time. People either exist at a given moment with a pre-teen Dick Grayson or with an adult Dick Grayson Esquire but never both.
2) On August 21, 1957 the Joker robbed the Spiffany jewelry store and battled Batman". Whether that was a young adult Bruce Wayne or a slightly older Dick Grayson in the Batsuit, both remember the battle as if they had been the Batman involved.

But your prose seemed to say:
1) There are two Dick Graysons co-existing in the same reality, they just never cross paths nor does anyone else connected to them. There is some mental fog that prevents people from connecting the two in any way.
2) "On August 21, 1957 the Joker robbed Spiffany's and battled Batman. Somehow young adult Bruce and older Dick Grayson continue on with one having been the Batman involved and the other never having any idea the robbery or battle occurred.

Your reply above seems to be something even more complex but incorporating both of my interpretations.

I think it would work this way, on August 21st, Batman fought The Joker. If the story works better with it as Bruce, it's Bruce. If it works better with Dick, it's Dick

That's about as complex as it needs to be. The whole intertwined timelines idea is just a handwave to explain away allowing any character to coexist with any other character, irregardless of whether they come from Earth-One or Earth-Two.

Of course, if you think about any of this, it won't hold up to much scrutiny, but neither does a pair of glasses being an effective means of concealing your identity or a rich guy in cape successfully fighting crime for years without getting irreparably injured and/or killed. You kind of have to accept the ridiculousness of it all.

[Jon Clark]

I'm debating putting them up at the 5 Earths Site as Elseworlds. I'd originally posted them years ago when that group was on Yahoo. Now they aren't on the current site (since most of the old non-continuity stuff didn't survive the transition). Split on whether reposting there is repetitive or if the turnover in readers make it worth the effort. If i post it I'll put up a link.

I decided to put it (back) up at the 5 Earth's site

https://5earths.proboards.com/thread/1447/broad-bronze