Mars, Dune'ish Darkseid of the Golden Age--Is It Time To Bring Him Back?

[John Venus]

I don't mind somebody using this characterization of Mars. It's new and different from anything we've seen before. Just because other writers didn't use them doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Just that they had different ideas.

[Agent Z]

I don't mind somebody using this characterization of Mars. It's new and different from anything we've seen before. Just because other writers didn't use them doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Just that they had different ideas.

Just to be clear, are you referring specifically to the Golden Age take on Mars? Because that isn't new and different, which is my point. If not, I apologize for the confusion.

[Mel Dyer]

What stuck out for me with that depiction was it establishing Mars having an astral army who would scavange battlefields and shackle the souls of those who died in the conflict be they participant or otherwise. Hauling them off in slave ships and traveling across the Astral Plane to Mars. Arriving to be broken and turned into agents of war, aiding in efforts to further conflict and death. Doomed by war to spend the afterlife forever in his service.

And at the same time also establishing that he was doing this across multiple worlds across the universe. Establishing him as this really large scale threat who grew in power for every war and battle.

Meteor Girls world was destroyed in war and its people practically worshippers of Ares will. Its been my headcannon that her world was just another one of Mars victims.

Basically, Mars was bringing everything we celebrate in Mongul, Darkseid, Thanos and Dune's Baron Harkonnen...all very popular, commercially successful, cosmic super-villains, that writers can't wait to use in stories, today. When you consider that Dr. Marston created his Mars, as a truly cosmic figure and conqueror of multiple worlds, beyond our star system, ..that's pretty forward-thinking for the 1940s superhero comics. Again, all of the raw materials were there, way back then, to make Mars, as big as Doctor Doom or whoever, and the astral army thing, like something out of Doctor Fate or Spectre stories, is just so cool and so much more imaginative, than the last three decades of Hot-Ares...

What happened? I think Robert Kanigher wasted a lot of time, playing WW for laughs, which is surprising, considering how imaginative, he truly was, on other comics! It really set the comic's overall development - rogues, supporting cast, good stories, etc - so far behind other superhero comics of the period, ..and Mars is a casualty of all that. Infuriating!

I'm not sure what it could hurt to do something big and cosmic, with the Greek god of war, or to editorially nudge writers to use a villain, like Adjudicator. When I've brought this up on forums, before, there's always some fan, who argues, "Well...a cosmic villain doesn't really fit the WW comic, because it's all about riding pegacorns and fighting krakens and romping around on Magic Island, waiting for Circe to..."

Eyes rolling up in my head, in exasperation. Done.

I know a Wonder Boy, the Golden Age Wonder Boy, who, after his world was destroyed by some sort of solar disaster, literally came crashing to Earth, ..as a meteor! What an amazing opportunity to plug him into the Wonderverse, this Meteor Girls WW story presents. That would be so cool, ..and it will never happen.

I don't mind somebody using this characterization of Mars. It's new and different from anything we've seen before. Just because other writers didn't use them doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Just that they had different ideas.

It would be new and different, for most of WW's current fans, many of whom aren't familiar, with the Golden Age comics or the pulp fiction magazines that inspired Wonder Woman's backstory. It was Dune'ish and Flash Gordon'ish and generally weird, I think, and that's so different, than anything we've seen attempted, with post-Crisis Ares, ..who doesn't seem to have much range, as a super-villain.

Let's not get side-railed, with how new and different bringing back Mars would be. It would be better, than what we've got...Diet Vader, who didn't even make it, into Wonder Woman 1984. Can we count one new, WW supervillain, created, over the last three years, ..whom any non-WW fan would consider hot or a fan-favorite? New and different is great, when it works, ..but, it needn't be a rubric for WW villains, or which rogues stay, go or get rehabbed, unless we want it to be.

I'm just asking, new retcon or oldies revival, should the WW comic bring Mars, back?

Mars's creator, the man, who imagined his fiery, weird, nightmarish, steampunky world, whose birthday we're celebrating, this week (May 9, 1893) - that guy died, before he could take Mars or his Amazing Amazon to the next level. Maybe, it's time we took another look, ..with the JK4W, hotter, than it's been in decades, and a New Gods movie, on the way. Why not?

And, yes...guess I'm also asking, if WW should junk post-Crisis Ares and run, with the original. That, too.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Seemingly alot of trouble that Ares has had in recent decades has mainly been due to writers wanting to lower the scale. Perez's take on the Olympian gods was to establish them as being powered by belief and to be inherently weak. A take which which stuck for pretty much the entirety of post crisis. Thus even with with Ares being the strongest of the lot, they made a big to do that he would die should he ever succeed in destroying the Earth in war. Pretty severely limiting his options.

Azzarellos take just turns the gods into average superhero folk who could be instantly taken out by Superman and incapable of producing anything on the level shown by say, Zatanna or Circe. Thus their Ares was similarly lowered in scale to match.

There has been evidence that we could see a stronger take on Ares/Mars in the future though. Snyders big events and Justice League run has shown Hera as a contemporary with several big name characters, the group as a whole being credited for safeguarding the multiverse from bigger scale threats. Logically if your putting one god on that sort of level, its only logical that you can see things scaling up across the board.

[Mel Dyer]

Seemingly alot of trouble that Ares has had in recent decades has mainly been due to writers wanting to lower the scale. Perez's take on the Olympian gods was to establish them as being powered by belief and to be inherently weak. A take which which stuck for pretty much the entirety of post crisis. Thus even with with Ares being the strongest of the lot, they made a big to do that he would die should he ever succeed in destroying the Earth in war. Pretty severely limiting his options.

Azzarellos take just turns the gods into average superhero folk who could be instantly taken out by Superman and incapable of producing anything on the level shown by say, Zatanna or Circe. Thus their Ares was similarly lowered in scale to match.

There has been evidence that we could see a stronger take on Ares/Mars in the future though. Snyders big events and Justice League run has shown Hera as a contemporary with several big name characters, the group as a whole being credited for safeguarding the multiverse from bigger scale threats. Logically if your putting one god on that sort of level, its only logical that you can see things scaling up across the board.

I think Azzarello's First Born had potential, before he turned into Angsty Porkchop god of Nothing. At least, for a hot minute, Diana had her own Kurgan. I'm a Highlander fan - works for me.

I'd love to see what Snyder would do, with everything we've been talking about, on this thread. His debut for Wonder Woman, in BvS, was so exciting.

[SiegePerilous02]

That the Golden Age take on Mars isn't used all that often is arguably a sign that there isn't anything interesting about him in the first place. Given that Rucka and even Azzarello had pretty fresh takes on Ares that made him a more neutral/heroic character, I think DC would be better off building off that characterization instead of another rehash of something from their past.

I don't mind somebody using this characterization of Mars. It's new and different from anything we've seen before. Just because other writers didn't use them doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Just that they had different ideas.

I have to agree with John Venus here: the idea not being used doesn't mean the idea is inherently bad or uninteresting, it just means the writers had different ideas they wanted to implement.

We have the upcoming solicitations indicating Diana will encounter an antagonistic Roman God, which combined with this creative team mainly focusing on the Golden Age for inspiration, has lead to people suspecting we will see Mars. And them calling him a Roman deity seems like an important way to distinguish that he's a separate entity from Ares in this case. I usually don't like creating separate characters out of the Greek and Roman gods, it has the potential to get convoluted, but if done right this would allow them build off the new characterization for Ares while also using a Golden Age inspired Mars. A new take on an old idea.

[Gaius]

I have to agree with John Venus here: the idea not being used doesn't mean the idea is inherently bad or uninteresting, it just means the writers had different ideas they wanted to implement.

We have the upcoming solicitations indicating Diana will encounter an antagonistic Roman God, which combined with this creative team mainly focusing on the Golden Age for inspiration, has lead to people suspecting we will see Mars. And them calling him a Roman deity seems like an important way to distinguish that he's a separate entity from Ares in this case. I usually don't like creating separate characters out of the Greek and Roman gods, it has the potential to get convoluted, but if done right this would allow them build off the new characterization for Ares while also using a Golden Age inspired Mars. A new take on an old idea.

That wouldn't actually be a bad way to split the difference.

If the Greeks and Romans would be separate, maybe use more obscure or lesser notable Roman Gods than just the counterparts to the 12 Olympians. Like how in WW84 the Duke of Deception went by the name of the Mendacius (Roman god of deceit and lies).

[SiegePerilous02]

That wouldn't actually be a bad way to split the difference.

If the Greeks and Romans would be separate, maybe use more obscure or lesser notable Roman Gods than just the counterparts to the 12 Olympians. Like how in WW84 the Duke of Deception went by the name of the Mendacius (Roman god of deceit and lies).

He actually may be the most likely candidate after Mars to be who the solicits are talking about

[Mel Dyer]

I have to agree with John Venus here: the idea not being used doesn't mean the idea is inherently bad or uninteresting, it just means the writers had different ideas they wanted to implement.

We have the upcoming solicitations indicating Diana will encounter an antagonistic Roman God, which combined with this creative team mainly focusing on the Golden Age for inspiration, has lead to people suspecting we will see Mars. And them calling him a Roman deity seems like an important way to distinguish that he's a separate entity from Ares in this case. I usually don't like creating separate characters out of the Greek and Roman gods, it has the potential to get convoluted, but if done right this would allow them build off the new characterization for Ares while also using a Golden Age inspired Mars. A new take on an old idea.

I think, and not to pick on the guy...but, Robert Kanigher dropped the ball, on the development of Mars, Clea and the other Wonder-rogues. The funk, the grit of Mar's once-nightmarish alien base faded to give way to something more Disneyesque, and that was the end of his realization, as the grotesque cosmic villain, Dr. Marston created him to be. The same can be said for what happened to the Duke, the Earl and Conquest. When Kanigher gives us the Crimson Centipede, a conceptually quirky idea for an agent or living weapon of Mars, ..it's pretty much slamming the coffin lid, on Marston's whole, lurid, pulpy vision...

Poor Wonder Woman fans.

To be fair, I think the stupid Comic Code Authority thing might have had something to do with editor Robert Kanigher toning down the world's most famous superheroine's comic book. We've read about Dr. Wertham's obsession, with blaming the Batman and WW comics for corrupting the innocence of children. Though I do recall reading an interview, in which Kanigher confessed to not having wanted to write WW, but winding up, stuck with it, anyway, ..and I think, reading the WW comic of the 50s, the lack of enthusiasm shows.

[Agent Z]

Basically, Mars was bringing everything we celebrate in Mongul, Darkseid, Thanos and Dune's Baron Harkonnen...all very popular, commercially successful, cosmic super-villains, that writers can't wait to use in stories, today. When you consider that Dr. Marston created his Mars, as a truly cosmic figure and conqueror of multiple worlds, beyond our star system, ..that's pretty forward-thinking for the 1940s superhero comics. Again, all of the raw materials were there, way back then, to make Mars, as big as Doctor Doom or whoever, and the astral army thing, like something out of Doctor Fate or Spectre stories, is just so cool and so much more imaginative, than the last three decades of Hot-Ares...

What happened? I think Robert Kanigher wasted a lot of time, playing WW for laughs, which is surprising, considering how imaginative, he truly was, on other comics! It really set the comic's overall development - rogues, supporting cast, good stories, etc - so far behind other superhero comics of the period, ..and Mars is a casualty of all that. Infuriating!

I'm not sure what it could hurt to do something big and cosmic, with the Greek god of war, or to editorially nudge writers to use a villain, like Adjudicator. When I've brought this up on forums, before, there's always some fan, who argues, "Well...a cosmic villain doesn't really fit the WW comic, because it's all about riding pegacorns and fighting krakens and romping around on Magic Island, waiting for Circe to..."

Eyes rolling up in my head, in exasperation. Done.

I know a Wonder Boy, the Golden Age Wonder Boy, who, after his world was destroyed by some sort of solar disaster, literally came crashing to Earth, ..as a meteor! What an amazing opportunity to plug him into the Wonderverse, this Meteor Girls WW story presents. That would be so cool, ..and it will never happen.



It would be new and different, for most of WW's current fans, many of whom aren't familiar, with the Golden Age comics or the pulp fiction magazines that inspired Wonder Woman's backstory. It was Dune'ish and Flash Gordon'ish and generally weird, I think, and that's so different, than anything we've seen attempted, with post-Crisis Ares, ..who doesn't seem to have much range, as a super-villain.

Let's not get side-railed, with how new and different bringing back Mars would be. It would be better, than what we've got...Diet Vader, who didn't even make it, into Wonder Woman 1984. Can we count one new, WW supervillain, created, over the last three years, ..whom any non-WW fan would consider hot or a fan-favorite? New and different is great, when it works, ..but, it needn't be a rubric for WW villains, or which rogues stay, go or get rehabbed, unless we want it to be.

I'm just asking, new retcon or oldies revival, should the WW comic bring Mars, back?

Mars's creator, the man, who imagined his fiery, weird, nightmarish, steampunky world, whose birthday we're celebrating, this week (May 9, 1893) - that guy died, before he could take Mars or his Amazing Amazon to the next level. Maybe, it's time we took another look, ..with the JK4W, hotter, than it's been in decades, and a New Gods movie, on the way. Why not?

And, yes...guess I'm also asking, if WW should junk post-Crisis Ares and run, with the original. That, too.

Ares didn't make it into Wonder Woman 1984 because he died in the previous film. This is a weird thing to use as a mark against him. He was also good enough to make it into the first movie which was considered a success and overall has a much better reception than 1984.

[Psy-lock]

I think the sci-fi take on Mars doesn't quite mesh with the more traditional take on the myths that we have now. I guess it can be solved by making the Roman pantheon a sci-fi counterpart to the fantasy Greek pantheon? I dunno, seems like to many gods for one comic.

[Mel Dyer]

Well...we have to accept that, maybe, Agent Z and the other post-Crisis fans are right. If there's nothing, out there, for King Kirby's New Gods movie, mayhap, yon time for old Mars and the smoldering, lusty, pulpy world, from which he sprang ..hath truly and duly passed.

Sad news. Have a look, kangaliers...

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/av...te-1234627540/

[Pinsir]

He was a pretty good villain, though I don't think he has a place in the modern Wonder Woman mythos though. I also don't like how Roman gods have been treated since post-Crisis, where they're like copies or something, I find that kind of boring and silly.

[Mel Dyer]

He was a pretty good villain, though I don't think he has a place in the modern Wonder Woman mythos though. I also don't like how Roman gods have been treated since post-Crisis, where they're like copies or something, I find that kind of boring and silly.

I think Darth Booberry had a good run. Seriously, I do.

Now, he needs to be retired, as a concept...y'know? Yeah, I know he's supposed to be all scary, with his red-hot coal eyes and apocalyptic $#*+. He's supposed to make Luthor and Batman crap their pants, but, he's Booberry. He's the vast, despotic ruler of my bowl of cereal [A-aargh. I am your fruity doom.] Truthfully, that's what he's always looked like, to me - just a pile of angry, Satanic blueberries, piled up in a barn, on somebody's farm, somewheres.

His whole routine is so tired and Harryhausen, now.

[Alpha]

Hahaha. Fair enough