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  1. #1
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Default Best Original Superhero

    Superman or Captain America?

    I know that DC has rebooted things so that Batman was before Superman, but let's be honest about how nuts that is.

    Anyway, in the movies, Superman is first in his realm and Captain America is first in his. So who did it better, in the movies?

    Or, ftm, anyone in the movies
    Last edited by green_garnish; 05-15-2021 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #2

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    Is the answer not obvious?



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  3. #3
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    Superman or Captain America?

    I know that DC has rebooted things so that Batman was before Superman, but let's be honest about how nuts that is.

    Anyway, in the movies, Superman is first in his realm and Captain America is first in his. So who did it better, in the movies?

    Or, ftm, anyone in the movies
    In the movies, Wonder Woman's first appearance now pre-dates Superman's.
    Possibly in the comic books as well, though I don't know if DC has officially settled on that yet since the 5G relaunch got scrapped.

  4. #4
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    There's some quibble room in this. In comics, Submariner was the first at Marvel, and Dr. Occult at DC (true, Dr. Occult wasn't exactly what we now think of as a superhero but, arguably, neither was Superman when first he debuted).

    As The Major pointed out, the WB DC-verse set Wonder Woman's debut before Superman's. For that matter, DoJ leaves room to assume Batman had been around for years before Superman turned up.

    Nitpicking aside, I personally thought the MCU's Captain America was a better effort than WB's Superman. It's hard to say the Superman wasn't as good an interpretation of the comics as MCU Cap's abilities were different enough from the source, and there have been so many interpretations of Superman over the decades. I suppose the version of Superman adapted for the WB-verse was not one of my favorites.

  5. #5
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    There's some quibble room in this. In comics, Submariner was the first at Marvel, . . .
    Has Namor been featured in any of the Marvel movies yet?

    And I don't know if the original Human Torch would have been . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Has Namor been featured in any of the Marvel movies yet?

    And I don't know if the original Human Torch would have been . . .
    Technically (per the Late, Great Don Markham), The Sub-Mariner debuted in a promotional give away issue predating Marvel Comics #1. I guess it depends on whether you want to go by publication date, or in-universe canon.

    Also, I mention Subbie in comics, as I do Dr. Occult, who has also never seen screen (AFIK).
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 05-16-2021 at 02:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Technically (per the Late, Great Don Markham), The Sub-Mariner debuted in a promotional give away issue predating Marvel Comics #1. I guess it depends on whether you want to go by publication date, or in-universe canon.

    Also, I mention Subbie in comics, as I do Dr. Occult, who has also never seen screen (AFIK).
    Good to know, but the information I find on this says that MOTION PICTURE FUNNIES WEEKLY was never actually distributed in movie theatres, so First Funnies (the studio providing all the material to Timely) just expanded that Sub-Mariner story for MARVEL COMICS No. 1--which did actually get distributed. There are lots of early versions of characters that get made and might come out in ashcans and such like--but do those actually count? The first story of Superman was cut and pasted for ACTION COMICS No. 1 from comic strips created more than a year before, it just never got published in any newspapers. The Vixen's comic was supposed to come out in 1978, but was a victim of the Implosion. Captain Marvel (a.k.a. Captain Thunder) would have been published in FLASH COMICS or THRILL COMICS but his first actual on newsstands comic was WHIZ COMICS No.2 (there was no No. 1).
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Good to know, but the information I find on this says that MOTION PICTURE FUNNIES WEEKLY was never actually distributed in movie theatres, so First Funnies (the studio providing all the material to Timely) just expanded that Sub-Mariner story for MARVEL COMICS No. 1--which did actually get distributed. There are lots of early versions of characters that get made and might come out in ashcans and such like--but do those actually count? The first story of Superman was cut and pasted for ACTION COMICS No. 1 from comic strips created more than a year before, it just never got published in any newspapers. The Vixen's comic was supposed to come out in 1978, but was a victim of the Implosion. Captain Marvel (a.k.a. Captain Thunder) would have been published in FLASH COMICS or THRILL COMICS but his first actual on newsstands comic was WHIZ COMICS No.2 (there was no No. 1).
    Like I said, it depends on what one decides is "official." I opt for The Sub-Mariner as Marvel's first, others would disagree and say There Is No Marvel First (as The Human Torch published at the same time).

    But, we digress from the threads point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Like I said, it depends on what one decides is "official." I opt for The Sub-Mariner as Marvel's first, others would disagree and say There Is No Marvel First (as The Human Torch published at the same time).

    But, we digress from the threads point.


    I think that we should go by publishing first. I've always heard that Superman was published first. I could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKryptonMan View Post
    I think that we should go by publishing first. I've always heard that Superman was published first. I could be wrong.
    Superman was published before Marvel (then, Timely)'s properties. Not before Dr. Occult, nor before The Crimson Avenger (both DC properties, even before their binge buy of other publishers).

    ...but, again, we're off topic...

  11. #11
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    Quibbles aside, I say that Superman is the first actual comic book super-hero as such. Captain America isn't even the first patriotic super-hero--I believe that's the Shield. So when it comes to being original, I'd say that Superman has the other super-heroes beat. The other super-heroes were quite clearly trying to copy Superman's success--but trying to do so while steering clear of Superman's lawyers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Quibbles aside, I say that Superman is the first actual comic book super-hero as such. Captain America isn't even the first patriotic super-hero--I believe that's the Shield. So when it comes to being original, I'd say that Superman has the other super-heroes beat. The other super-heroes were quite clearly trying to copy Superman's success--but trying to do so while steering clear of Superman's lawyers.
    Hm. Quibbles remain.

    Get right down to it, Superman was less The First Superhero than The Bridge Between The Pulp Hero And The Superhero. Compare his first half dozen stories with those of The Shadow, or The Avenger.

    IMO, The Superhero (as we understand it) was something that congealled around late 1939 or early 1940.

    Still, that's off the thread topic.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Hm. Quibbles remain.

    Get right down to it, Superman was less The First Superhero than The Bridge Between The Pulp Hero And The Superhero. Compare his first half dozen stories with those of The Shadow, or The Avenger.

    IMO, The Superhero (as we understand it) was something that congealled around late 1939 or early 1940.

    Still, that's off the thread topic.
    Well, if you're talking thread topic, there's the original post:
    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    Superman or Captain America?

    I know that DC has rebooted things so that Batman was before Superman, but let's be honest about how nuts that is.

    Anyway, in the movies, Superman is first in his realm and Captain America is first in his. So who did it better, in the movies?

    Or, ftm, anyone in the movies
    Emphasis added by me.

  14. #14
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    Ah, categorisation and typology…

    If we are to take Captain America: the First Avenger versus Man of Steel, Captain America wins hands down.

    But if we are to compare Donner's 1978 Superman with Captain America, then the question gets much trickier, especially so since they are made in highly different times, even before we take the differences in the technical aspects of filmmaking. It's like comparing any modern fantasy with Tolkien—the modern book might be better in various ways, but it will always have a huge debt to the original.

    And then Wonder Woman debuted before Superman in the current DC cinematic storyline, as MajorHoy and other has pointed out. Here I'd argue that Wonder Woman's 2017 movie was deeply in conversation both with Captain America—as well as with the shared genre of war movies—and did everything that Captain America did but better.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #15
    Incredible Member luprki's Avatar
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    No doubt The Man of Steel is the best

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