Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[CosmiComic]

If you fit every franchise that isn't the X-Men or Fantastic Four into the Avengers then yes... otherwise not really. Even then the MCU focus on racial issues doesn't do that much for me. I loved Black Panther for what it represented, but Falcon and the Winter Soldier talked about race in the most generic way. It's literally like they were checking off boxes:

• Stopped by the police. Check
• Wrongful incarceration. Check
• "I'm a black man living in America." Check

I'm gonna need a little bit more than the bullet points from an African-American Studies 101 lecture before I start holding up the MCU as the gold standard for race issues.

It's not great, yeah, but it's more real than any metaphor IMO. All the comics have far to go. Several people here act like going any deeper will scare audiences away

[Kingdom X]

No, just that the story and team makeup come before a diversity balancing act or casting minority actors to portray traditionally white characters instead of using the minority characters available in the X-Books.

To clarify are you advocating for the use of available minority character over race-swapping or vice versa?

Regardless I'll state my opinion on that. I would rather an MCU project pull from any number of X-Men teams to get a character from a certain demographic than race-swap. It's not that I think that race-swapping is inherently wrong, but it's honestly really tiring to hear people go on and on about how their favorite character has been "ruined" because of a race change (when race wasn't a factor in that character's story).

[Alpha]

Some writers don't emphasize this enough, but people do fear becoming a minority in terms of socioeconomic power. It's a fear of resources that comes from a similar place as that stupid phrase "they're taking our jobs!", so yes, I could very much imagine people being scared of Northstar and Storm in the same way if you use the metaphor right because of what they represent; not what they look like. To be fair, mutants don't help their cause by labeling themselves as Homo Superior.

Then make a story about that not about the x-gene as a metaphor for dozens of things.

No because these are comic books and escapism, if these were documentaries or historical fiction you would have a better case, but it's superhero comics and people are not always looking for overt social commentary as you can see as answers in this very topic.

And you think that in this day and age people accept those kind of simplistic mutant metaphors for racism better than they would if you were actually using african Americans?

As for implicating sympathy and empathy from being in an out-group and a shared loss of power, well... I just gave you the reason. Being in a minority should give you a clear understanding of power dynamics and a lack of power by being in a minority in terms of resources and status. It turns some individuals to seek that power by stepping on others, but it can also create a sense of unity and allies. I think that's sort of what Ayala's Children of the Atom is about actually, along with other things about escapism and feeling special.

How does being Goth make you understand affirmative action? How does being arabic or black make you accelt gay adoption? Education and exposure define your values not the "experience of being in a minority". And do you not see how insulting and annoying it is to ignore the actual important parts of these experiences for a vague and useless metaphor for " We are all unpriviliege so we should agree on all social issues". The mutant metaphor isn't just useless, it's laughable in the world of today because it tries to say something important but none of the examples it gives make sense.

[Hizashi]

To clarify are you advocating for the use of available minority character over race-swapping or vice versa?

Regardless I'll state my opinion on that. I would rather an MCU project pull from any number of X-Men teams to get a character from a certain demographic than race-swap. It's not that I think that race-swapping is inherently wrong, but it's honestly really tiring to hear people go on and on about how their favorite character has been "ruined" because of a race change (when race wasn't a factor in that character's story).

Yeah, basically what you said. I think in certain cases the race of a character is important (like Bruce Wayne's Batman or Black Panther or Storm), but I'd rather just use minority characters if that's what we want to see.

[davetvs]

Why is this always the "go-to" attitude online? People assume talking about race means "PSA for kids" or something. When that's not remotely true



You say that, yet it seems the prevalent attitude here is saying "Metaphor is good enough, let's not go too deep or audiences will hate it". IMO that's much more of a privileged attitude

I don't agree with that take either. I don't think the metaphor has gone nearly far enough, likely because most of the X-Men's writers have been straight white males. My point is that there are more than enough properties in comic bookdom who can provide straight white male escapist fantasy without messy "political" themes, if that's your bag. The X-Men is not one of them, and it shouldn't be.

[Hizashi]

Why is this always the "go-to" attitude online? People assume talking about race means "PSA for kids" or something. When that's not remotely true

You say that, yet it seems the prevalent attitude here is saying "Metaphor is good enough, let's not go too deep or audiences will hate it". IMO that's much more of a privileged attitude

It's not great, yeah, but it's more real than any metaphor IMO. All the comics have far to go. Several people here act like going any deeper will scare audiences away

Well, to Kingdom X's point about F&WS (which admittedly I haven't watched) when I say PSA I mean the checking the boxes thing and drawing a reader/viewer out of a story with a heavy-handed approach to the topic. That's why a metaphor is better than just stating things or being so blunt about it.

It's not about scaring audiences away, it's about audiences gravitating to stories that include the message without being preachy or heavy-handed.

[Alpha]

Do people here not realize that there's a big difference between writing an X-men story that shows the black or gay experience, and writing a story that has black or gay people talk about how they are discriminated but claming that the X-gene is the reason why? Adressing real issues is great, using a dumb mutant metaphor is awful.

But I welcome anyone that wants to describe to me how they would use the mutabt metaphor in this day and age. Describe that scene to me.

[CosmiComic]

Then make a story about that not about the x-gene as a metaphor for dozens of things.



And you think that in this day and age people accept those kind of simplistic mutant metaphors for racism better than they would if you were actually using african Americans?

How does being Goth make you understand affirmative action? How does being arabic or black make you accelt gay adoption? Education and exposure define your values not the "experience of being in a minority". And do you not see how insulting and annoying it is to ignore the actual important parts of these experiences for a vague and useless metaphor for " We are all unpriviliege so we should agree on all social issues". The mutant metaphor isn't just useless, it's laughable in the world of today because it tries to say something important but none of the examples it gives make sense.

Arguably, the benefit of a widely diverse cast such as the X-Men means they actually could show how different every group's and individual's experiences with bigotry. It doesn't have to be an in-depth PSA or NatGeo special like some people act like it would, but it can be more comprehensive than a surface-level "racism is bad" idea

I don't agree with that take either. I don't think the metaphor has gone nearly far enough, likely because most of the X-Men's writers have been straight white males. My point is that there are more than enough properties in comic bookdom who can provide straight white male escapist fantasy without messy "political" themes, if that's your bag. The X-Men is not one of them, and it shouldn't be.

Lack of diversity behind the scenes has been a problem in the industry. Idk if it's improving. But even White male writers could research how to make more accurate female, PoC, and other minority characters. It's not impossible

[CosmiComic]

Well, to Kingdom X's point about F&WS (which admittedly I haven't watched) when I say PSA I mean the checking the boxes thing and drawing a reader/viewer out of a story with a heavy-handed approach to the topic. That's why a metaphor is better than just stating things or being so blunt about it.

It's not about scaring audiences away, it's about audiences gravitating to stories that include the message without being preachy or heavy-handed.

But most of these stories aren't that heavy-handed, at least not from what i've seen. This slippery slope argument always comes up but just ends up stalling progress without justification. No one's pointing to the camera saying "racism is bad". And frankly X-Men do preach about stuff, but it's just a fictional prejudice instead of the real deal

Do people here not realize that there's a big difference between writing an X-men story that shows the black or gay experience, and writing a story that has black or gay people talk about how they are discriminated but claming that the X-gene is the reason why? Adressing real issues is great, using a dumb mutant metaphor is awful.

But I welcome anyone that wants to describe to me how they would use the mutabt metaphor in this day and age. Describe that scene to me.

Exactly. I wouldn't call the metaphor dumb, just outdated

[davetvs]

But most of these stories aren't that heavy-handed, at least not from what i've seen. This slippery slope argument always comes up but just ends up stalling progress without justification. No one's pointing to the camera saying "racism is bad". And frankly X-Men do preach about stuff, but it's just a fictional prejudice instead of the real deal



Exactly. I wouldn't call the metaphor dumb, just outdated

How is it outdated? Did the world suddenly start treating minority groups with respect instead of finding ways to discriminate against and oppress them? There is literally a genocide happening right now.

[ChronoRogue]

Wait what? I'm saying that in real life a lot of disabilities occur during a person's life, including puberty. So the disability metaphor works great. And are you seriously saying that what we need in this day and age are metaphors for the gay experience? Because if so then you are absolutely wrong. We need the gay experience actually presented in superhero movies, not allegories

But it's not a standard that disabilities occur at puberty like it is for mutants, that's my point.

Do we need metaphors for the gay experience? No. Is it nice to see that reflect? Yes. Also again, one does not preclude the other, we can have both.

Then make a story about that not about the x-gene as a metaphor for dozens of things.

That... is the main the story and the reason why mutants are persecuted. They don't get hated for no reason.

And you think that in this day and age people accept those kind of simplistic mutant metaphors for racism better than they would if you were actually using african Americans?

I mean the X-Men are still pretty popular so yes? They've been overtaken by the Avengers because of the resources directed at the franchise in and outside of comics.

How does being Goth make you understand affirmative action? How does being arabic or black make you accelt gay adoption? Education and exposure define your values not the "experience of being in a minority". And do you not see how insulting and annoying it is to ignore the actual important parts of these experiences for a vague and useless metaphor for " We are all unpriviliege so we should agree on all social issues". The mutant metaphor isn't just useless, it's laughable in the world of today because it tries to say something important but none of the examples it gives make sense.

I just answered your question, power dynamics and status are highlighted when you are treated as an other. Do they understood the details or intrinsic of everything involved in being a particularly minority or ethnicity? No but there are commonalities found in between those examples because of what I've repeated. Of course the leagues of differences between a goth and a racial minority is that one can choose to stop or change a sense of fashion or lifestyle, so it's not really an equal comparison in that respect.

And no? I'm part of various minorities myself and it never annoyed me to see it represented on-screen or in the comics through the metaphor. I think it's the opposite, I get the impression lots of minorities were attracted by the premise of the X-Men. Would I find it annoying if it was all white-characters or the times the X-Men have been majority white like the X-films? Yes but that's not always the case and is an extreme.

Also unprivileged socioeconomic and racial groups do frequently poll or skew toward certain social policies, this has been researched, so it's kinda funny that was brought up. Not everyone of course, because there are traditionalist and conservative unprivileged as well but there are definitely patterns present in politics and opinions because of shared experiences.

I'm really surprised to find a current X-fan who seems to think the metaphor was completely useless or outdated. I'm curious, what attracted you to the franchise then?

[CosmiComic]

How is it outdated? Did the world suddenly start treating minority groups with respect instead of finding ways to discriminate against and oppress them? There is literally a genocide happening right now.

My point is: it's outdated because it's not actual representation. I would rather see actual minority groups dealing with actual bigotry against them.

[Kingdom X]

Do people here not realize that there's a big difference between writing an X-men story that shows the black or gay experience, and writing a story that has black or gay people talk about how they are discriminated but claiming that the X-gene is the reason why? Addressing real issues is great, using a dumb mutant metaphor is awful.

But I welcome anyone that wants to describe to me how they would use the mutant metaphor in this day and age. Describe that scene to me.

A couple of thoughts:

1. You're absolutely correct, talking about mutant oppression is not a good replacement for actual minority stories.

2. For me the metaphor doesn't have to go beyond, "Mutants are different, so humans are wary of them, and that's why they spend time together and form superhero teams." That way you have plenty of space to explore actual marginalized identities or a plethora of other stories without getting bogged down by a somewhat outdated metaphor.

3. Question for everyone: Do you need your X-Men stories to address discrimination? I'm not sure if stories about real-life marginalization are going to take center stage even if they de-emphasize the metaphor.

[ZephyrSurf]

I think it's reasonable, if you can succinctly pair it down to one thing that it's clearly a metaphor for. otherwise, the whole X-men is EVERY minority thing, just rings woefully hollow. Cause it's just not true and does a disservice to all parties.

[Hizashi]

But most of these stories aren't that heavy-handed, at least not from what i've seen. This slippery slope argument always comes up but just ends up stalling progress without justification. No one's pointing to the camera saying "racism is bad". And frankly X-Men do preach about stuff, but it's just a fictional prejudice instead of the real deal



Exactly. I wouldn't call the metaphor dumb, just outdated

What stories are we talking about? The comics or the MCU?