Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[Havok83]

No. Been there done that. Id actually love it if they embraced the concept of being a mutant like the Ultimate X-men line did when it started

[skyvolt2000]

And that is also wrong, you won't find me saying otherwise. That being said I don't want an X-Men film where Scott is the only white character and he's relegated to shooting beams and calling it a day either. Do I think that's where they'll go? No, but that attitude is not the right one to have in my opinion.

If you hire a competent writer-Scott won't be just doing that nor will Storm just fry Toad and call it a day.

No way Scott will be the only white guy in any X-Men film.

If we are talking roster with no need of ages and all that-just a diverse roster that fits a budget.

Scott, Jean, Logan & Storm are the set in stone. When folks think X-Men it tends to be those 4. Now the others 2 or 3 slots? Me personally-Synch or Prodigy or Sunspot (how is he SUPPOSE to look), Mirage and Rogue or Gambit or Iceman.

That is 7. Now if you wanted a 10 person roster-Scott, Jean, Logan, Storm, Emma, Sunfire, Prodigy, Rogue, Mirage and Gambit.

[Grunty]

No. Been there done that. Id actually love it if they embraced the concept of being a mutant like the Ultimate X-men line did when it started

That being born a mutant somehow becomes something the US government could make illegal by law and punishable by death via on the spot execution by giant purple killer robots, which they also reserve exclusively for hunting it's own citizen in the streets, instead of heavily altering it's actual armed forces active around the world with this kind of seemingly readily aviable technology?

Or did i actualy miss any usuable finer ideas that the Ultimate X-men comics had?
Because as far as i can see the whole thing was from start to finish a pile of depressing aimless typical early 2000's "darker and bloodier" re-interpretation of a classic franchise. Which however is also why i skipped it, so i might have missed what you saw positively in it.
Also just for the info i wasn't a particular fan of the Ultimates either for similar reasons.

[Besouro]

I haven't seen this discussed before so forgive me if it were. Should the MCU X-men heavily feature the persecuted minority aspect of the franchise? I'm asking this because with Shang Chi, Ms Marvel, and CA4 MCU is already developing projects with minority leads before the inevitable arrival of the mutants? To me it'll be better if they distance themselves from Prof. X/Magneto ideological clash a bit and go to space with Shi'ar or go weird with Mojo for the first outings. I'm not saying completely abondon the metaphor but maybe not make it the focal point of the franchise.

Good point on the many minority leads in the Avengers.

It is hypocritical of the X-Men to claim "minority metaphor" when only white mutants are all you see being pushed repetitively and recurringly as the lead characters with 98% of stories and events centred on them and doing all the decision making and giving commands which makes it appear as though non-white mutants have no agency and/or are all gobbled up into "noble negro" trope irrespective of whether they are black on not....just as long as their existence to just to benefit the white leads.

Secondly, Avengers diversity actually puts and shows more effort towards balances promotion of diversity between genders, both male and female. While the X-Men for the most part focuses on white male X-Men and their assorted collection of female variety.

[Hizashi]

I though they were talking about the mainly White X-Men.



If they're trying to preach about hate and equality, having too many White people on the team could be tone-deaf

And that's why I don't want it to be the focus.

[Hizashi]

If you hire a competent writer-Scott won't be just doing that nor will Storm just fry Toad and call it a day.

No way Scott will be the only white guy in any X-Men film.

If we are talking roster with no need of ages and all that-just a diverse roster that fits a budget.

Scott, Jean, Logan & Storm are the set in stone. When folks think X-Men it tends to be those 4. Now the others 2 or 3 slots? Me personally-Synch or Prodigy or Sunspot (how is he SUPPOSE to look), Mirage and Rogue or Gambit or Iceman.

That is 7. Now if you wanted a 10 person roster-Scott, Jean, Logan, Storm, Emma, Sunfire, Prodigy, Rogue, Mirage and Gambit.

That would work for me.

[CosmiComic]

Good point on the many minority leads in the Avengers.

It is hypocritical of the X-Men to claim "minority metaphor" when only white mutants are all you see being pushed repetitively and recurringly as the lead characters with 98% of stories and events centred on them and doing all the decision making and giving commands which makes it appear as though non-white mutants have no agency and/or are all gobbled up into "noble negro" trope irrespective of whether they are black on not....just as long as their existence to just to benefit the white leads.

Secondly, Avengers diversity actually puts and shows more effort towards balances promotion of diversity between genders, both male and female. While the X-Men for the most part focuses on white male X-Men and their assorted collection of female variety.

While the Avengers still have a while to go, I've seen more of them put more focus on actual racial issues, for instance, when it comes to PoC heroes.

And that's why I don't want it to be the focus.

So you want the MCU to be mostly White?

[Grimsmack]

I think there’s a good chance (great, really) that the inevitable discrimination plot/subplot will be told mainly by a trio of white men: Professor X, Wolverine, and Magneto. If so, Marvel will deserve the ridicule it gets.

I’m with others that it shouldn’t be “heavy-handed”, but it should be a major element.

It would be a great opportunity to make Storm or Jubilee or Kitty a major player, for instance. I’m skeptical it’ll happen...

[Hizashi]

While the Avengers still have a while to go, I've seen more of them put more focus on actual racial issues, for instance, when it comes to PoC heroes.

So you want the MCU to be mostly White?

No, just that the story and team makeup come before a diversity balancing act or casting minority actors to portray traditionally white characters instead of using the minority characters available in the X-Books.

[CosmiComic]

No, just that the story and team makeup come before a diversity balancing act or casting minority actors to portray traditionally white characters instead of using the minority characters available in the X-Books.

Can't the story include diversity?

[Hizashi]

Can't the story include diversity?

Yeah, I've seen suggested lineups that would include three or four minority characters and that would be fine, great even. There's a difference between that and going "Afterschool Special" on us.

[davetvs]

Is it its core theme, though? Each X-men writer defines what the X-men themes are.

Although Claremont dived into the minority metaphor, he also wrote many other stories that had nothing to do with that. It was his versatility I liked and his capacity to go from drama to levity and surprise me.

Well, yeah. Minorities live lives that are impacted by societal oppression in many ways, but it's not necessarily salient at every second of every day. A gay person can still go to a baseball game, but that doesn't mean they've suddenly evolved beyond homophobia affecting their life just because they had a good time. Just because the minority metaphor is central to the concept of the franchise itself doesn't mean every storyline has to be expressly about it.

Someone on an earlier page seemed to imply "the X-gene" is the core concept of the book instead of the minority metaphor, but those are the same thing...it's the gene that gives them minority status and its according treatment. They are still superheroes, but the minority metaphor is what makes the X-Men unique, and so resonant with diverse groups of people. No offense, but "let's move away from this theme" sounds like something only an extremely privileged person would want.

[Alpha]

I understand that, but a vast amount of mutations do occur from puberty and NOT from birth. That's exactly why it does not work as a 1 to 1 comparison and why it sort of better compares to situations like a LGBT experiences. Again, it's a metaphor that covers more than one minority experience(s) and IMO works better that way.

Wait what? I'm saying that in real life a lot of disabilities occur during a person's life, including puberty. So the disability metaphor works great. And are you seriously saying that what we need in this day and age are metaphors for the gay experience? Because if so then you are absolutely wrong. We need the gay experience actually presented in superhero movies, not allegories

[Kingdom X]

While the Avengers still have a while to go, I've seen more of them put more focus on actual racial issues, for instance, when it comes to PoC heroes.

If you fit every franchise that isn't the X-Men or Fantastic Four into the Avengers then yes... otherwise not really. Even then the MCU focus on racial issues doesn't do that much for me. I loved Black Panther for what it represented, but Falcon and the Winter Soldier talked about race in the most generic way. It's literally like they were checking off boxes:

• Stopped by the police. Check
• Wrongful incarceration. Check
• "I'm a black man living in America." Check

I'm gonna need a little bit more than the bullet points from an African-American Studies 101 lecture before I start holding up the MCU as the gold standard for race issues.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, I've seen suggested lineups that would include three or four minority characters and that would be fine, great even. There's a difference between that and going "Afterschool Special" on us.

Why is this always the "go-to" attitude online? People assume talking about race means "PSA for kids" or something. When that's not remotely true

Well, yeah. Minorities live lives that are impacted by societal oppression in many ways, but it's not necessarily salient at every second of every day. A gay person can still go to a baseball game, but that doesn't mean they've suddenly evolved beyond homophobia affecting their life just because they had a good time. Just because the minority metaphor is central to the concept of the franchise itself doesn't mean every storyline has to be expressly about it.

Someone on an earlier page seemed to imply "the X-gene" is the core concept of the book instead of the minority metaphor, but those are the same thing...it's the gene that gives them minority status and its according treatment. They are still superheroes, but the minority metaphor is what makes the X-Men unique, and so resonant with diverse groups of people. No offense, but "let's move away from this theme" sounds like something only an extremely privileged person would want.

You say that, yet it seems the prevalent attitude here is saying "Metaphor is good enough, let's not go too deep or audiences will hate it". IMO that's much more of a privileged attitude