Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[Alpha]

The mutant metaphor is part of the core concept of the entire franchise, the X-Men aren't the X-Men without it. It is what elevates them and makes them interesting.



The individual characters are shaped by a world that is constantly persecuting them. It informs their personalities, their life experiences, their relations to humanity, their relations to each other, and their choices. They would not be the same characters without that context. That's not a "plot line", it is foundational background.

And just speaking personally, the fact that the X-Men are superheroes is the least interesting thing about them. I actually find superhero books generally kind of boring and predictable. The fact that mutants exist in a world where the majority of people wish they did not is what fascinates me and is why I continue to read the books after out growing the idea of superheroes as a child. If that concept was removed from the franchise, I would have no interest in them.

I mean, it's perfectly fine for you to like the setting and the dynamic of mutants being persecuted as long as you don't pretend that it has any real world relevance and understand that it isn't emotionally or intelectually insightful about any of our minorities.

[Kingdom X]

Maybe restricted is the wrong word, but the repeated persecutions and extinction events and the whole "humans vs mutants" thing generally seems to take over the X-Men. Things like the Decimation are what I'm talking about. My main point is I don't see the Avengers stuck on this one kind of thing but get to have different kinds of stories. The X-Men do also, but the whole persecution business always pops back up

To be honest that's like 10 years out of an almost 60-year publication history. Of course it can't be totally ignored, but I certainly don't define the franchise by extinction events. That'd be like saying, "The Avengers don't have any different kinds of stories because they have a lot of invasion events or because they spend a lot of time fighting each other."

Plus even during Decimation you had space stories with the Shi'ar and unique ideas like a mutant private detective agency with X-Factor. Also Rick Remember's Uncanny X-Force happened during this era and it didn't seem like he was at all limited by the status quo.

[Frobisher]

X-Men works as a "found family" or "last gang in town" metaphor too. I actually agree it's become a poor stand-in for the actual minority group experience, but X-Men remains rich in subtext about outsiderdom and coming of age and they should focus more on that side of things now. (There must be a million Young Adult Fiction novels now about teenagers who find they have special powers, or are put into a school for talented youngsters, or are sorted by a magical hat into themed Districts and made to street dance against each other.)

[Cane_danko]

I mean, it's perfectly fine for you to like the setting and the dynamic of mutants being persecuted as long as you don't pretend that it has any real world relevance and understand that it isn't emotionally or intelectually insightful about any of our minorities.

It actually does though. It might not be as impactful as you would like it to be but just look at the rise of storm. She blew all the other black superheroes out the water at her inception. Luke cage and others just added to stereotypes until they were later revamped. Even iceman coming out as lgbt is a big deal. It gives minorities a voice and someone they can relate to. As far as it being emotionally insightful, that depends on the person. Hell, i’ve shed a few tears in some of my reading of xmen while others would just scoff at it. Now, i am not saying the xmen are the pinnacle of social justice in the comic world, but they were pioneers in that aspect. They came out in a time of civil unrest over racial relations and made a statement. Though, i admit, it is relatively weak when you look how long it took them to incorporate people of color or other minorities, but they are also a superhero team, first and foremost. It was not written to be this culture shock literature. It was a superhero book that took liberties and tried to expand upon some of the things the writers saw wrong with the country. Fast forward to the present, and while i would like some stronger implications being written, the xmen are still a super hero team and marvel is still a business. Even iceman coming out of the closet had a ripple effect. I remember plenty of conservative readers quitting because of that. Check out twitter and you will see things like “make xmen great again!” Or some other nonsense of people trying to claim marvel is to political while they try to subvert their own political views into the books. Anyways, there is more to be said but this is already tldr so i will get off my soapbox on this post.

[Kingdom X]

X-Men works as a "found family" or "last gang in town" metaphor too. I actually agree it's become a poor stand-in for the actual minority group experience, but X-Men remains rich in subtext about outsiderdom and coming of age and they should focus more on that side of things now. (There must be a million Young Adult Fiction novels now about teenagers who find they have special powers, or are put into a school for talented youngsters, or are sorted by a magical hat into themed Districts and made to street dance against each other.)

You just perfectly put into words what I've been struggling to express for a while now. You need the X-Men to be "different" otherwise you don't have that sense of found family or community, but that doesn't mean that it has to take the place of actual minority narratives.

[Alpha]

It actually does though. It might not be as impactful as you would like it to be but just look at the rise of storm. She blew all the other black superheroes out the water at her inception. Luke cage and others just added to stereotypes until they were later revamped. Even iceman coming out as lgbt is a big deal. It gives minorities a voice and someone they can relate to.

I feel like you are arguing in bad faith. I clearly stated that I was talking about the mutant metaphor, not about X-men stories in general. Storm is popular for reasons that have nothing to fo with Sentinels hunting mutants.

[Alpha]

You just perfectly put into words what I've been struggling to express for a while now. You need the X-Men to be "different" otherwise you don't have that sense of found family or community, but that doesn't mean that it has to take the place of actual minority narratives.

Mutants being hunted isn't "The Mutant Metaphor". I have no objection to the sentinels pursuing mutants. I have a big problem with the absurdity of thinking that those stories should teach about real world discrimination.

[Cane_danko]

I feel like you are arguing in bad faith. I clearly stated that I was talking about the mutant metaphor, not about X-men stories in general. Storm is popular for reasons that have nothing to fo with Sentinels hunting mutants.

I’m not arguing in bad faith or at least i am not trying to. I am saying storm was a strong black woman superhero in a comic in which there were virtually none. It all has to start somewhere and xmen happened to be on point when it decided to make an international team. Hell, xmen have dropped the ball plenty of times in regards to social justice, i won’t argue with that point. I am just saying that the attempts have always been there and has always been a part of the underlying message of what the xmen are about. It can be picked apart, quite easily in some cases. Its still part of the overall theme of what the xmen represent.

[CosmiComic]

To be honest that's like 10 years out of an almost 60-year publication history. Of course it can't be totally ignored, but I certainly don't define the franchise by extinction events. That'd be like saying, "The Avengers don't have any different kinds of stories because they have a lot of invasion events or because they spend a lot of time fighting each other."

Plus even during Decimation you had space stories with the Shi'ar and unique ideas like a mutant private detective agency with X-Factor. Also Rick Remember's Uncanny X-Force happened during this era and it didn't seem like he was at all limited by the status quo.

I was just responding to a comment saying the Avengers are monotonous, which I disagree with because they don't have one big repeating storyline like the mutant persecution complex

[Vishop]

X-Men works as a "found family" or "last gang in town" metaphor too.

Thats basically writing FF.

[Dante Milton]

There's more to all these characters than just what you describe.

What else is there?

And when it comes to oppression, why don't they address the other factors?

We have had some stories that explore characters experiencing oppression from other aspects of their identity, and I will always be in favor of expanding on that. The mutant metaphor should work along with representations of stories about real marginalized identities not in substitute of them. Obviously.

I mean, it's perfectly fine for you to like the setting and the dynamic of mutants being persecuted as long as you don't pretend that it has any real world relevance and understand that it isn't emotionally or intelectually insightful about any of our minorities.

1. Don't tell how me to think or feel.

2. As a gay man, I have read X-Men stories that have felt emotionally and intellectually insightful about my experiences, and that is relevant to my real world life. Would I have preferred that those stories be explicitly in reference to sexuality instead of subtextually implied? Sure. But they are not less valuable to me because they aren't.

[Alpha]

I’m not arguing in bad faith or at least i am not trying to. I am saying storm was a strong black woman superhero in a comic in which there were virtually none. It all has to start somewhere and xmen happened to be on point when it decided to make an international team. Hell, xmen have dropped the ball plenty of times in regards to social justice, i won’t argue with that point. I am just saying that the attempts have always been there and has always been a part of the underlying message of what the xmen are about. It can be picked apart, quite easily in some cases. Its still part of the overall theme of what the xmen represent.

I don't disagree with any of those statements, but you aren't talking about "the mutant metaphor". You are talking about actual representation and real sovial themes, rather than metaphors through the x-gene.

[CosmiComic]

What else is there?

Their personalities, character development, individual plotlines, etc. I don't see how you can reduce all of these characters to just one thing

We have had some stories that explore characters experiencing oppression from other aspects of their identity, and I will always be in favor of expanding on that. The mutant metaphor should work along with representations of stories about real marginalized identities not in substitute of them. Obviously.

Yeah, the metaphor definitely shouldn't replace real representation. I just don't see any point in continuing a metaphor when real representation is more prominent now

[Alpha]

1. Don't tell how me to think or feel

2. As a gay man, I have read X-Men stories that have felt emotionally and intellectually insightful about my experiences, and that is relevant to my real world life. Would I have preferred that those stories be explicitly in reference to sexuality instead of subtextually implied? Sure. But they are not less valuable to me because they aren't.

1. I'm not personally telling you how to think, I'm making a general statement. I appreciate your autonomy and liberty.

2. I'm not saying that the Mutant Metaphor wasn't important in the 60s and 80s and even in the 90s. At that time it wouldn't be possible to publish stories of that kind with real world issues and minorities.

I'm saying that the mutant metaphor is no longer useful, because any story told with that metaphor would be much better and much more relevant if gay people were talking about gay issues in a truthful manner. From now on the mutant metaphor will always be a non sensical step down from what we need.

[Doom'nGloom]

Thats basically writing FF.

To me FF is more of an actual family. The way I see it

Avengers: Coworkers/colleagues

X-men: Comrades/brothers in arms

FF: Family