Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[Doom'nGloom]

I think metaphors can work if there is a clear link between the metaphor and real life. Orwell's Animal Farm itself is a giant metaphor for Russian revolution. Pigs represented authorities. You can go even further and say Napoleon is Stalin and Snowball is Trotsky. With mutants you can't say they represent any particular minority group so instead they represent all minorities. But then you try emphasizing on a distinct minority problem like voting rights but in doing so you imply this is something all minorities all around the world face which simply isn't true. That's why I think the metaphor shouldn't be the main focus. It should be there as it is baked into the X-men mythos but if X-men delves deep into it it'll break apart quickly. Instead they can give their minority characters prominent roles and be a positive for minorities that way.

[jwatson]

I'm from North America. I was just trying to be exact.

Anyway, non-Black people may not exactly understand what Black people go through, but they'll never know anything if they don't experience it. I feel these metaphors just obscure the reality of what PoC go through everyday. X-Men aren't Amistad, but that's not really an excuse IMO. Falcon and Winter Soldier isn't Amistad either but it at least approached the topic. It didn't go in depth but it at least showed in some way what Black Americans deal with. I don't think saying some won't understand at all what others go through won't really help

While i can see your point i think it works because the problem with humanity is sometimes if you are too specific they don't care because it isn't "relatable" to them. So in that sense i tihnk it works to have an abstract metaphor that fits many groups so that people can independently think to themselves "something isn't right here" and independently make that thought and frame it in a way that connects to them. We have already seen in the real world showing real issues with real people doesn't necessarily change minds. All those slave movies told in America but look at the current state we are in. More people are sympathetic when they can empathically connect to something. I personally don't know why people can't connect to another race just because they look different and need something like x-men to connect and understand to unfair treatment but they do.

[CosmiComic]

While i can see your point i think it works because the problem with humanity is sometimes if you are too specific they don't care because it isn't "relatable" to them. So in that sense i tihnk it works to have an abstract metaphor that fits many groups so that people can independently think to themselves "something isn't right here" and independently make that thought and frame it in a way that connects to them. We have already seen in the real world showing real issues with real people doesn't necessarily change minds. All those slave movies told in America but look at the current state we are in. More people are sympathetic when they can empathically connect to something. I personally don't know why people can't connect to another race just because they look different and need something like x-men to connect and understand to unfair treatment but they do.

I see what you mean, but idk if the metaphor works any better on this. Plus, the slave movies show racism from the past, noy nowadays. And idk if I feel comfortable with the idea of prejudice only being successfully explained to the majority by using stand-ins, as if minorities can't tell their own stories. imo it's not just about convincing prejudiced people, but also giving minorities the chance to tell their own stories, especially when all kinds of media have worked tp suppress that

[jwatson]

I see what you mean, but idk if the metaphor works any better on this. Plus, the slave movies show racism from the past, noy nowadays. And idk if I feel comfortable with the idea of prejudice only being successfully explained to the majority by using stand-ins, as if minorities can't tell their own stories. imo it's not just about convincing prejudiced people, but also giving minorities the chance to tell their own stories, especially when all kinds of media have worked tp suppress that

But what's to say a minority isn't telling the story in a way they feel will best reach the audience because as a minority you have seen the limit on human conception when they don't want to understand someone who doesn't in someone connect to them as they would imagine it.

[CosmiComic]

But what's to say a minority isn't telling the story in a way they feel will best reach the audience because as a minority you have seen the limit on human conception when they don't want to understand someone who doesn't in someone connect to them as they would imagine it.

If people are resistant, then why would an even less similar metaphor about superpowers work? Anyway, my point is even if it doesn't convince people, minority heroes should be able to tell their points of vuew without needing to translate for the majority. It may not always totally work but I think minority voices deserve more support

[Devaishwarya]

I'm not saying they have to touch every single issue. If they even deal with only one or two, it's still more real than some metaphor. Dealing with the experience of Black Americans, for instance, doesn't exclude the experience of Native Americans, Asian Americans or any other group. That experience is still more similar to the others than a fictional one. And let's not use Twitter as an excuse to do nothing.

Picking and choosing one or two can still be interpreted as neglecting the others. (Yes, by Twitter and other forums)
And let's be clear...Native Americans have their own specific issues and experience. As do Asians. As do Trans. As do Gays. They're really not that similar to the American Black experience, not even remotely.

[CosmiComic]

Picking and choosing one or two can still be interpreted as neglecting the others. (Yes, by Twitter and other forums)
And let's be clear...Native Americans have their own specific issues and experience. As do Asians. As do Trans. As do Gays. They're really not that similar to the American Black experience, not even remotely.

Did Twitter attack Black Panther for not dealing with Asian issues? I know Twitter can go crazy but it's not some bogeyman to justify never trying. Of course it's not feasible to deal with every prejudice at once, but every entry can deal with a different one. It's not like every X-man will be im every movie or show at once. And even seeing a X-Men show or movie deal with prejudice against Black Americans is much more relatable to me as someone of a different ethnic background, than the X-gene metaphor

[jwatson]

If people are resistant, then why would an even less similar metaphor about superpowers work? Anyway, my point is even if it doesn't convince people, minority heroes should be able to tell their points of vuew without needing to translate for the majority. It may not always totally work but I think minority voices deserve more support

Example. In america since i'm american, police brutality. There are dozens of cases where it happens to black people and others are like "well there must be more to the story." But then when they see a cop beat up an 80 year old white woman and brag they are like "there is no room for doubt, why did he hit that old woman, something can't be right here." At some point those two paths lead to the same issue.

[CosmiComic]

Example. In america since i'm american, police brutality. There are dozens of cases where it happens to black people and others are like "well there must be more to the story." But then when they see a cop beat up an 80 year old white woman and brag they are like "there is no room for doubt, why did he hit that old woman, something can't be right here." At some point those two paths lead to the same issue.

Yeah, but why should the result of that be not showing what happens to Black Americans? The whole idea of White people needing a filter to empathize is part of the problem

[Devaishwarya]

Firstly...I never suggested not doing anything because of Twitter. The very notion is ridiculous.
Secondly...If you, as someone who is of a different background, can relate to the plight of Black Americans, why is it so difficult to relate to the plight of Mutants? Chances are there will be one or two who actually look like you. In that fictional world (and for all intents and purposes it is the representation of a fictional world we're talking about) the only thing that separates you from Mutants is that X-gene.

btw...The Mutant Metaphor is not solely about having that x-gene.

[jwatson]

Yeah, but why should the result of that be not showing what happens to Black Americans? The whole idea of White people needing a filter to empathize is part of the problem

Because at this point, at least imo, the minds that need to be opened and changed aren't the ones who can actually see and connect to the problem it's the ones that can't. There are some people incapable of seeing anything other than themselves. It just is what it is. you either leave them in their corner to continue to simmer in hate or you try different approaches for them to see what is.

[Hizashi]

Firstly...I never suggested not doing anything because of Twitter. The very notion is ridiculous.
Secondly...If you, as someone who is of a different background, can relate to the plight of Black Americans, why is it so difficult to relate to the plight of Mutants? Chances are there will be one or two who actually look like you. In that fictional world (and for all intents and purposes it is the representation of a fictional world we're talking about) the only thing that separates you from Mutants is that X-gene.

btw...The Mutant Metaphor is not solely about having that x-gene.

I agree with your points and that's why I think forcing mutants solely or even primarily into the minority metaphor is a detriment.

[BroHomo]

These "the metaphor is outdated/senseless" arguments are all for naught

Also, it makes sense in more ways than one. Erik can't be a Holocaust survivor now so the most effective alternative is to make Charles and him be African-American children in the Civil Rights era, reflecting MLK and Malcolm X respectively as Stan Lee (retroactively) claimed them to be.

I'm here for this

Discrimination is fictive? Powers?

um Discrimination is real


[QUOTE=Alpha;5543737]
The mutant metaphor as defined since the 90s is a concept that states mutants can be used as a generic and very broad metaphor for discrimination of any kind, and an alienated community. It reminds me of that Rick and Morty episode where an alien race has an hierarchy whre people woth squares on their chest are more important than people with triangles in their chest. The mitant metaphor is an equally absurd metaphor that teaches us nothing about actual life. The reasons why mutants are pursued by giant purple robots are totally different from police over patrolling and using abusive unproportional force on african americans.
Which are??

This idea is bad. Whereas having african american mutants or gay mutants talk about the actual real world challenges they face because they are african american and gay makes sense.

I meeean it can't be that bad...how long has the franchise been going on? In How many different medias. Why would anyone want to follow that in a comic when there's so many different ways to consume that kinda discussion. Blogs, radio, video calls I don't think a monthly 5 cartoon comic strip is gonna hold the same drama as reality TV show... movies

The X-Men are not the Mutant Avengers. this is just not the truth. Even when X-MEN had crossovers with X-Force, New Mutants and X-Factor, no fan ever said, this is a Mutant Avengers team. I have never heard that before and I have been an XMEN fan for almost 30+ years and studied their almost 70 year history

Keep preaching! But they don't deserve this much hstf Truth!

I can confidently say as a queer black person that I have no desire to watch a movie about Sentinels that are programmed to go after black and gay people. That’s trauma porn at it’s finest.

lol it. Is. KWAzzzzy people don't understand this but maybe get off

The so called mutant metaphor will never and should never be taken seriously as long as marvel tries to push the idea that the likes of Emma, Rogue, Logan, Lorna, Kitty, etc... suffer more racism, bigotry, prejudice and oppression than the Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage. That outlook will never not be cringe and insulting.
Not to me and I've been reading since the 90s soooo
Put Emma and Sam Wilson side by side and ask a non comic reader who they think is more the victim of oppression and bigotry. Most if not all will say Sam and when told no actually it's the beautiful blonde rich white woman who experiences more bigotry and oppression either the one asking the question will get the side eye or outright laughed at, and the X-men franchise will most likely be seen as a joke for even suggesting that possibility.

Lol whaaaat? This just"proves" a non Comic book reader doesn't read comics. Ask that same person who has powers Emma or red winged Sam they'll probably pick The Falcon. Orrr put BP next to Sage and ask which one was a former slave they'll probably pick BP
I don't get what this proves except you wanna enforce sterotypes??

In this day and age no one thinks a rich white woman suffers more bigotry than a black man especially in the US, but they are supposed to think and accept that they do in X-men comics, it defies suspension of belief. In a world of make believe you can accept almost anything but some things you pump the breaks on. And this notion that beautiful white people with amazing abilities and living in a mansion or island paradise are oppressed more than black and brown people in the inner cities is one where you slam on the breaks hard. It's hard for anyone to take it seriously anymore.

In this day and age? Was there a time when it would have been more believable?? Not sure why you have not I qualify them as beautiful...if they were ugly it'd be more believable? People seemed pretty damn open to a hidden African paradise with a Cat like King superhero so preeeetty sure you're wrong

But there is such an obvious answer though. X-Men/mutants are an entire race/species who are the next evolutionary stage and threaten to replace Homo Sapiens while Avengers are just Homo Sapien celebrities with powers.

riiiight

I'm pretty sure most of the MCU X-Men will be played by POC. Even Emma can be played as a Nicki Minaj or American Naomi Campbell type. Just saying.

This question has already been answered many times here. It's outdated because at this point if you wanna talk about discrimination of gay people you can also afford, and have a duty, to have gay people portraying it. Metaphors exist for when a subject isn't socially acceptable.

Sooo a black person can't relate to the discrimination gay people face? Arab Men can't empathize with the suspicion and fear unfairly thrust on a black woman? Annnnnnyway the X-Men tell stories about Mutants but if that doesn't count why stop there? Why read fake stories about people saving lives when people are doing it in real life? Read about an actual WW2 Allied soldier ora real billionaire saving lives...why read fiction at all?

Star Trek talked about discrimination way back in the 60s, but it didn't use any of the actual minorities to do that. Instead it used Spock and Vulcans and Romulans. This is because if it tried to actually speak in the same way about african americans or japanese, it wouldn't be funded.

Annnd eventually it got rid of Spock and the Vulcans Rommulans...and all the aliens Right?

Honestly this is the very reason why the Avengers are just plain out monotonous in comics. It only gets alluring when the book is look for more outside the box or worldbuilding.

Lol riiight gah there's a reason why the Avengers were pretty much treading water in the kiddie pool from the 90s to more recently LMFAO

I was just responding to a comment saying the Avengers are monotonous, which I disagree with because they don't have one big repeating storyline like the mutant persecution complex

Nah just a different ridiculous bad guy every month

[CosmiComic]

Firstly...I never suggested not doing anything because of Twitter. The very notion is ridiculous.
Secondly...If you, as someone who is of a different background, can relate to the plight of Black Americans, why is it so difficult to relate to the plight of Mutants? Chances are there will be one or two who actually look like you. In that fictional world (and for all intents and purposes it is the representation of a fictional world we're talking about) the only thing that separates you from Mutants is that X-gene.

btw...The Mutant Metaphor is not solely about having that x-gene.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that about you. I've just seen a lot of people online act like Twitter is some kind of bogeyman destroying everyone's favorite series.

Anyway, I can sympathize with any fictional character if I believe their storyline. But my point is I don't need to have the same ethnic background as other PoC to empathize with them, whether real or fictional

[CosmiComic]

Because at this point, at least imo, the minds that need to be opened and changed aren't the ones who can actually see and connect to the problem it's the ones that can't. There are some people incapable of seeing anything other than themselves. It just is what it is. you either leave them in their corner to continue to simmer in hate or you try different approaches for them to see what is.

Those people who can't connect to the experiences of different minorities with prejudice shouldn't preclude those minorities telling those experiences

Nah just a ridiculous bad guy every month

As opposed to the X-Men, who don't?