Khan vs. Ozymandias

[Sharpandpointies]

Thanks, Nik!

Okay, it's more of an actual catch (not 'caught between two fingers, peace sign style', which is what I was expecting. And it still almost gets him, and knocks him down.

It's also not exactly a modern rifle.

I would put this in the same range as his pistol catch, other than the fact that he doesn't sit there focusing and gauging for five second beforehand, doing it more 'off-the-cuff' so to speak. Practice makes perfect? ^_^ So, a little better.

Mileage, etc.

[big_adventure]

Yeah, my first reaction seeing the scene is that old school, flintlock carbine isn't even supersonic with it's bullets, and the guy firing it takes a long time lining it up. So this is basically still the diet-coke-ist of bullet timing.

Likely better than Khan's speed, but Khan is massively stronger and more durable, and has a healing factor to boot. Ozy isn't taking him.

[Sharpandpointies]

Khan strength feats? I don't recall. By all means, compare him to Spock as well.

I ask, because lest we forget, Ozzy has ridiculous feats for hitting stuff in the movies. Like, 'kick person, send them flying 10' so that they crack stone and bounce off it'. Was silly wire-work stuff, but it's there.

[sunofdarkchild]

Khan is canonically 5 times stronger than a normal human male , which is nearly twice as strong as Spock. As an older man he was able to lift Chekov into the air with one hand with ease and picked up and threw a large piece of metal debris on the bridge of the Reliant. In the JJverse he was a tank and impossible to hurt or KO.

In terms of who wins I'd give it to Ozymandias. I don't know who is smarter, but Khan lets his ego and rage blind him which leads to his defeat while Ozymandias doesn't have weaknesses like that which is why he wins in the end.

[Iron_Twister]

Well...Kelvin Timeline Khan definitely did crush a man's skull and was planning to do so with Spock in their fight if Uhura didn't start blasting him with stun shots.

...Speaking of which, the guy just tanks such shots and Kirk's blows on him is more like slaps to him (seeing how he reacts like he's wondering what exactly is going on as Kirk keeps whaling on him).

...Really weird when Prime Timeline Khan was taken out by Kirk armed with a pipe and fights like he's wading through molasses but I kinda attribute that as Kelvin Timeline Khan actually spending more time being accustomed to the 23rd Century as a Section 31 Operative so I dunno? Seriously, I'm just really hands off on Into Darkness as it's definitely my least favorite of the Kelvin films.

[big_adventure]

Khan strength feats? I don't recall. By all means, compare him to Spock as well.

I ask, because lest we forget, Ozzy has ridiculous feats for hitting stuff in the movies. Like, 'kick person, send them flying 10' so that they crack stone and bounce off it'. Was silly wire-work stuff, but it's there.

CumberKhan, from Star Trek Into Darkness, has feats for doing things like at least matching Spock's strength and being both quicker and a better fighter than the guy, no-selling repeated hits from an enraged Kirk that he didn't even try to defend or roll with, and a lot of other stuff putting him way beyond normal human.

In his first major action, he is doing acrobatics while carrying a both starship-killing gun that looks to weigh at least 100kg or more, and a phaser rifle in the other hand, and using both guns with clinical precision at the same time to kill, oh, 250 or so klingons and 5 or so of their ships. He then drops the guns, runs, jumps probably 20m long and 6m or so down, lands like a cat, and proceeds to kills another stack of armed klingons by hand. He walks up to ask a question to Kirk and Spock, Spock has a rifle on Khan, Khan casually raises and no-look one-hand fires his own rifle to destroy Spock's, all while the superhuman Spock had his sights on Khan.

In the first scene on the massive black ship, he punches a human and knocks him into the air and back at least 4m, the dude does not get up. He one-shots, barehanded, a number of other attackers. He trivially handles Kirk, then crushes Admiral Marcus' skull like popping a zit.

He survives a crash from space into San Francisco... but it's unclear how impressive that is, as there was nobody else on the ship to have to survive. The only thing is, Sulu says "there is no way he survived," Spock says "he could." He did. While visibly in pain and injured, he then jumps 30 meters out of the crashed ship lands fine, slides another 100m or more down the massive saucer (the ship is much larger than Enterprise) and just parkours on into the city. He sprints for a while, being chased by the phaser-armed Spock, and eventually jumps about 10m across while gaining 4m or so of height onto a ship taking off. Spock also gets onto this ship. As Spock is climbing up the side, Khan kicks him, knocking away the phaser. An injured Khan beats an enraged Spock in HtH, starting by picking him up with on hand and tossing him casually 4 meters across and 2 or so up, into a fin on the other side of the ship, hard enough that the Vulcan Spock is stunned and ragdolled a bit. After some traded blows, Spock manages to get the Vulcan nerve pinch going on Khan, Khan yells in pain, then grabs Spock's hand and pulls the pinch off. A one-handed punch knocks Spock flying at least 4m. He casually jumps down about 20m onto another ship. Spock does the same, but nearly rolls off. Khan proceeds to kick the ever-loving crap out of Spock. In the middle he grabs Spock, and, with Spock resisting with 2 hands, proceeds to engage to crush the guy's skull. Spock slips this with another Vulcan nerve touch... thingy. Khan continues dominating Spock.

Uhura saves Spock by unloading on Khan with a phaser. Khan takes 7 phaser shots to the chest from Uhura and walks right through them towards her. Spock see this, rips a large chunk of metal off of the ship, and blind-sides Khan with it, then breaks Khan's arm, then wins the fight from there - though, while he's lying flat on the deck of this ship, Spock, who clearly wants to kill here, unloads with 15 or so full strength punches, Khan can't do much at that point, but Khan doesn't even lose consciousness.

Not strength, but he's capable to casually handle a high-speed jump from one starship to another, maintaining course and dodging massive amounts of debris, this same jump critically messing up Kirk, at which point Khan saves Kirk and gets both of them safely to the target.

Anyway, he seems pretty far beyond Ozy in strength, massively more durable, has a healing factor that can even return other beings from death (or irrecoverable injury) to life, and isn't any less skilled. Ozy can land some hits, but they won't do anything, and once Khan gets his hands on the guy, it's over.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Thanks, Nik!

Okay, it's more of an actual catch (not 'caught between two fingers, peace sign style', which is what I was expecting. And it still almost gets him, and knocks him down.

It's also not exactly a modern rifle.

I would put this in the same range as his pistol catch, other than the fact that he doesn't sit there focusing and gauging for five second beforehand, doing it more 'off-the-cuff' so to speak. Practice makes perfect? ^_^ So, a little better.

Mileage, etc.

I dunno how worth noting it is, but I seem to recall this entire sequence being planned as well.

As in, he knew the shot was coming well beforehand.

[Sharpandpointies]

I dunno how worth noting it is, but I seem to recall this entire sequence being planned as well.

As in, he knew the shot was coming well beforehand.

More info is good.

It really doesn't seem like anything a whole lot better than his bullet-catch in the original work.

[Sharpandpointies]

By the standards of the real world, Ozzy is stupidly, ridiculously fast and strong.

He IS fast enough to pull off a crappy bullet-time feat or two. He's fast enough to be nothing but a blur, running at speeds greater than everyone else is moving, when closing in on an assassin.

He completely, effortlessly overpowers Rorschach and Nite-Owl. Nite-Owl being a guy who one-punches large inmates and sends them rocketing three feet straight up with an uppercut (even older and out-of-shape he's a monster), both of these guys being people who beat up crowds. He kicks people and they literally fly off the ground from a prone position, spin across a room, then slam into a wall, bounce off of that corner and keep flying. He grabs large people (Nite-Owl), lifts them cleanly from the ground (onehanded), and chokeslams them effortlessly. He grabs Rorschach and hurls him...I don't know, 25'? Rorschach crumbles part of the stone that he hits. All this is done casually.

Standing start, he leaps like 6' straight up without effort. He easily jumps 20' from a standing start.

He's skilled and fast enough to stand between two impossibly good fighters and basically parry everything they throw at him and punch them around while carrying on a conversation. He's blocking multiple attacks from Rorschach behind his back, for crying out loud.

He's also tough enough to have Nite-Owl (who, again, punches very large men straight up into the air) sit on him and slug him in the face over and over, and come out of it with a fat lip.

However, looking at the feats given for Khan, I'm figuring Khan is too much for him. Not as fast nor as skilled, but he's not going to be utterly blitzed or out-fought and thus can likely weather the hits he's going to take hopefully long enough to manage to get in some hits of his own (or get his hands on Ozzy). Khan is basically strong and tough enough to manage, here. It's a fight, but advantage Khan - too strong and, for sure, too tough.

I would say this fight would be kind of like Khan fighting a more skilled, faster Spock (I would totally give Ozzy the nod against Spock, from what I remember).

Mileage may vary!

[master of read]

i mean, khan fought off the vulcan neck pinch from spock long enough to get out of it. i have yet to see anyone in either timeline do that. and considering how bloody strong vulcans are, it say something about khan soak/durablity.