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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Rey Doe wouldn't have spawned the ocean of memes that stupid ass Rey Skywalker scene did though and really, the memes and jokes are pretty much the best thing about the sequels.

    The one ending i could have liked would have been if for our lord and savior Reysus Christ to acknowledge the sacrifice of her brave parents and claimed back the Palpatine name to make it something worth of trust and respect.

    But noooo, let's just have her claim the name of two people she barely knew, cause it rimes i guess.

    -Rey who?

    -Rey Palpatine...that's right, run you hag!!
    I think the Rey taking on the Skywalker name could have worked a little better if Luke and Rey had bonded. Having moments where she broke through his cynicism and showing that deep down the old Luke was still there somewhere. As it stands the whole Rey Skywalker thing feels hollow.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I think the Rey taking on the Skywalker name could have worked a little better if Luke and Rey had bonded. Having moments where she broke through his cynicism and showing that deep down the old Luke was still there somewhere. As it stands the whole Rey Skywalker thing feels hollow.
    Maybe if they hadn't killed Luke off in episode 8, they could've had more time.

  3. #48
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Honestly, that was what I assumed was going to happen as soon as I heard the title of the third movie and I rolled my eyes so god damn hard.
    Really? I liked it. But I'm a sucker for cheesiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Maybe if they hadn't killed Luke off in episode 8, they could've had more time.
    Sounds like between Trevorrow and even the pre-Trevorrow JJ outlines, she was going to bond more with Leia and take the name because of Leia but we sadly know why that can't be.

    I really do believe had Carrie not passed, the film would've been quite different because Leia's lines would've been new and serving the plot, not people trying to monkey the plot around her lines.
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  4. #49
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I think the Rey taking on the Skywalker name could have worked a little better if Luke and Rey had bonded. Having moments where she broke through his cynicism and showing that deep down the old Luke was still there somewhere. As it stands the whole Rey Skywalker thing feels hollow.
    There's actually a deleted scene where Luke pulls a prank on her as the "Third lesson" and Rey kind of gets huffy and Luke seems partially taken aback and ashamed. Worth noting that given the placement the scene would've have, after that point, he opens himself to the force again to reach out to Leia, and also there's his confrontation with Rey where he uses some of that too (Also perhaps leaving an opening for Yoda to "find" him again?)
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Really? I liked it. But I'm a sucker for cheesiness.

    Sounds like between Trevorrow and even the pre-Trevorrow JJ outlines, she was going to bond more with Leia and take the name because of Leia but we sadly know why that can't be.

    I really do believe had Carrie not passed, the film would've been quite different because Leia's lines would've been new and serving the plot, not people trying to monkey the plot around her lines.
    Unfortunately, Carrie Fisher dying meant there wasn't a great way to continue, but at least they could've chose the least bad option. I would've much preferred Leia dying after being thrown into space, rather than prolonging her appearance to a worse done death in RoS. Then Luke could've stayed on for one more movie and actually got to better know Rey as his Padawan. I was disappointed with how the original cast was handled in the last 2 movies (and the new cast, for that matter).

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Unfortunately, Carrie Fisher dying meant there wasn't a great way to continue, but at least they could've chose the least bad option. I would've much preferred Leia dying after being thrown into space, rather than prolonging her appearance to a worse done death in RoS. Then Luke could've stayed on for one more movie and actually got to better know Rey as his Padawan. I was disappointed with how the original cast was handled in the last 2 movies (and the new cast, for that matter).
    You really think leaving fans with the last image of Carrie being her freezing to death shortly after the announcement of her death is a good idea? That's messed up ...

    If they had to retcon her death into TLJ, cutting her into Holdo's scene and leaving that character alive makes WAY more sense, IMHO. Carrie always loved giving people the finger ...
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  7. #52
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    My view has evolved a bit since I first saw TROS, but basically:

    - How important do you consider the Skywalkers getting a “happy ending” is?
    Depends how you mean. It's more important to me that they have a "solid" ending -- an ending that went somewhere and said something. And although I would have done it differently, I do think this mostly happened in the ST; they might not be the fates I'd have wanted for them, but they are all fates that mattered and pushed the story forward at important moments. (And honestly, as an older guy I appreciated the acknowledgment that often enough in life, you don't t stay together with your closest friends forever, even if you all wish otherwise.)



    - How important is it that Rey outshine and overshadow Kylo, since thatÂ’s a definite risk of leaving him the only Skywalker?
    That's essential. If Rey doesn't overshadow Kylo in the end, he wins, rocks fall (dropped from orbit), everybody dies -- and Rey doesn't become the aspirational figure that the story is all about her becoming.

    - Does it actually add something to the mythos, seriously?
    Certainly: the Skywalker legend ends (actually, it probably doesn't, once Rey takes the name), but what it fought for is triumphant. (The bloodline ends, but who cares? It came out of the Force, now it goes back to it, its mission accomplished.)

    I actually thought this thread would be about Nobody Rey vs Palpatine Rey. Initially I much preferred that Rey have a completely non-mythic background, because that was saying that heroes don't have to come from special backgrounds. But it's occurred to me that as it stands, the ST taken as a whole says with Rey's arc that not only do you not need a special background, but even a background of horror and evil can be walked away from and left behind. Both. That works pretty well for me.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    You really think leaving fans with the last image of Carrie being her freezing to death shortly after the announcement of her death is a good idea? That's messed up ...

    If they had to retcon her death into TLJ, cutting her into Holdo's scene and leaving that character alive makes WAY more sense, IMHO. Carrie always loved giving people the finger ...
    Maybe that's not the best idea, but how they handled her in RoS was weird to me.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredH View Post
    My view has evolved a bit since I first saw TROS, but basically:

    - How important do you consider the Skywalkers getting a “happy ending” is?
    Depends how you mean. It's more important to me that they have a "solid" ending -- an ending that went somewhere and said something. And although I would have done it differently, I do think this mostly happened in the ST; they might not be the fates I'd have wanted for them, but they are all fates that mattered and pushed the story forward at important moments. (And honestly, as an older guy I appreciated the acknowledgment that often enough in life, you don't t stay together with your closest friends forever, even if you all wish otherwise.)



    - How important is it that Rey outshine and overshadow Kylo, since thatÂ’s a definite risk of leaving him the only Skywalker?
    That's essential. If Rey doesn't overshadow Kylo in the end, he wins, rocks fall (dropped from orbit), everybody dies -- and Rey doesn't become the aspirational figure that the story is all about her becoming.

    - Does it actually add something to the mythos, seriously?
    Certainly: the Skywalker legend ends (actually, it probably doesn't, once Rey takes the name), but what it fought for is triumphant. (The bloodline ends, but who cares? It came out of the Force, now it goes back to it, its mission accomplished.)

    I actually thought this thread would be about Nobody Rey vs Palpatine Rey. Initially I much preferred that Rey have a completely non-mythic background, because that was saying that heroes don't have to come from special backgrounds. But it's occurred to me that as it stands, the ST taken as a whole says with Rey's arc that not only do you not need a special background, but even a background of horror and evil can be walked away from and left behind. Both. That works pretty well for me.
    I think that last message is a good message, but the journey to that in the ST was confusing and inadequate.

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    There's actually a deleted scene where Luke pulls a prank on her as the "Third lesson" and Rey kind of gets huffy and Luke seems partially taken aback and ashamed. Worth noting that given the placement the scene would've have, after that point, he opens himself to the force again to reach out to Leia, and also there's his confrontation with Rey where he uses some of that too (Also perhaps leaving an opening for Yoda to "find" him again?)
    I know the scene you're talking about. I can kind of understand why it was cut. However Rey calling him out is one part of it I did like.


    Quote Originally Posted by FredH View Post
    My view has evolved a bit since I first saw TROS, but basically:

    - How important do you consider the Skywalkers getting a “happy ending” is?
    Depends how you mean. It's more important to me that they have a "solid" ending -- an ending that went somewhere and said something. And although I would have done it differently, I do think this mostly happened in the ST; they might not be the fates I'd have wanted for them, but they are all fates that mattered and pushed the story forward at important moments. (And honestly, as an older guy I appreciated the acknowledgment that often enough in life, you don't t stay together with your closest friends forever, even if you all wish otherwise.)



    - How important is it that Rey outshine and overshadow Kylo, since thatÂ’s a definite risk of leaving him the only Skywalker?
    That's essential. If Rey doesn't overshadow Kylo in the end, he wins, rocks fall (dropped from orbit), everybody dies -- and Rey doesn't become the aspirational figure that the story is all about her becoming.

    - Does it actually add something to the mythos, seriously?
    Certainly: the Skywalker legend ends (actually, it probably doesn't, once Rey takes the name), but what it fought for is triumphant. (The bloodline ends, but who cares? It came out of the Force, now it goes back to it, its mission accomplished.)

    I actually thought this thread would be about Nobody Rey vs Palpatine Rey. Initially I much preferred that Rey have a completely non-mythic background, because that was saying that heroes don't have to come from special backgrounds. But it's occurred to me that as it stands, the ST taken as a whole says with Rey's arc that not only do you not need a special background, but even a background of horror and evil can be walked away from and left behind. Both. That works pretty well for me.
    I never felt there was a need too say you didn't need too come from somewhere special. That message in the sequel trilogy felt redundant IMO. IMO the fates of the Skywalkers really didn't add anything. I kind of knew Luke wasn't going too make it out. Though it did happen a movie early. However I don't feel the sad fates added anything worthwhile too the story and just seemed too repeat Kylo's mantra of "Let the past die. Kill it if you have too."

    Honestly the force, the Jedi and the civil war in the OT were really just backdrops too the Skywalker story. So if the ending of that story is unsatsifactory too you. You're not going too enjoy the ST. I feel like the sequel trilogy was trying to fix something that wasn't broke. In hindsight I think it would have been much better if the Sequel a Trilogy had nothing too do with the Skywalker story. Just start a new story with a blank slate.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I get that, I get all of it, I really do!

    ...But I also don’t think any of those complaints counter the problem posed by Rey Random afterwards - Kylo Ren’s legacy connection making both audiences and creators become more enamored with him over Rey, and damning the Skywalkers to a crappy-ass ending.

    And I’m sorry, but I feel like the “predictable,” “fan fiction,” “small universe complaints are so small as to be negligible when contrasted with “The family story ends with a cancerous.ly pathetic character getting them all killed, or being made the main character.

    And to be blunt... I really do think a lot fo those complaints are biased and a bit hypocritical, because they’re not followed through on regarding Kylo - who’s just as much a small-universe, fan-fiction-y concept as Rey Skywalker would be, but still got to take over the entire damn time period - or on Finn - who no one ever pretended would have an important legacy, but also never really get praised for it even as half the fanbase tries to pretend her wasn’t denigrated and demeaned by TLJ for Kylo’s sake.

    I genuinely think that if you find Rey Random a great idea, than you should kind of be pissed at Kylo Ren on both a conception and execution level.

    And if you aren’t... then I kind of think you’re conviction isn’t actually all that strong.
    So don't write Kylo in a way that overshadows Rey. People liked Rey in the first movie (and yes, the second movie) when they thought she was unrelated to anyone important. Hell, she still got overshadowed by Kylo even after the reveal she was Palpatine's granddaughter.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The problem is both directors did their own thing without being consistent with one another. And Idk if Abrams ever really had an answer for his mystery box. So if he didn't, he shouldn't have set up all those mysteries
    Abrams has admitted that he had no plans for his mystery box.

    https://collider.com/jj-abrams-star-...plan-comments/

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Abrams has admitted that he had no plans for his mystery box.

    https://collider.com/jj-abrams-star-...plan-comments/
    Just what I thought.

  14. #59
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    I think the PT was really the only Star Wars trilogy that was pretty much planned out more or less, especially since we kind of already knew the story. Early versions of ESB and ROTJ for example differ immensely from what we got.

    Even though, Lucas when working on ROTS changed his mind a few times about the primary reason for Anakin's turn...originally it was feelings of betrayal by the Jedi pretty much, but during reshoots I think he added more of the Padme dying fears. There's an entirely different cut of the office battle scene out there somewhere I think, with Anakin present when the Jedi arrive for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think the PT was really the only Star Wars trilogy that was pretty much planned out more or less, especially since we kind of already knew the story. Early versions of ESB and ROTJ for example differ immensely from what we got.

    Even though, Lucas when working on ROTS changed his mind a few times about the primary reason for Anakin's turn...originally it was feelings of betrayal by the Jedi pretty much, but during reshoots I think he added more of the Padme dying fears. There's an entirely different cut of the office battle scene out there somewhere I think, with Anakin present when the Jedi arrive for example.
    Wow, I didn't know that

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