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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Default Does Invincible's Success Justify Action-Oriented DC Shows Without Toylines?


  2. #2
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Well, we are still getting Young Justice aren't we?

    They are going to make a toy-line no-matter what. Invincible is still getting a toy-line, it's just not the driving force of the show like it is for some other shows.

    It would be nice if it was like that for other shows, but of course, the younger the audience demographic is the more toy-focused the show will be.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    No, expect toys and figurines to follow people will buy now
    and then the studio will want more programming like Invincible so they can sell other merchandise
    it didnt break the model it will assimilate into it

  4. #4
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    No, expect toys and figurines to follow people will buy now
    and then the studio will want more programming like Invincible so they can sell other merchandise
    it didnt break the model it will assimilate into it
    This is correct. Further, for now, Image is not beholden to an executive management trying to guess what institutional investors want. Worse, DC is owned by a company owned by a company trying to show ROA, so their corporate executives are getting directives from masters with (at best) an imprecise understanding of comics.

    It doesn't matter what you did for a living, once your company goes public, you are in the stock price business, and everything else is a side gig. If Image even considers going public, or selling itself to somebody like Netflix, revenue by any means will become far more important than content.

  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Hasn't this been the DC Animated Features' bread and butter for a while now?

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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  7. #7
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    I'd have argued Young Justice proved that and was still canceled for lack of toy sales. Companies are weird.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    It all comes back to the almighty dollar. Action cartoons tend to be expensive and not everyone has Jeff Bezos money like Amazon Prime. Still I hope HBO Max steps up its DC animation offerings in the future. A Justice League revival is a no brainer.

  9. #9
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    It all comes back to the almighty dollar. Action cartoons tend to be expensive and not everyone has Jeff Bezos money like Amazon Prime. Still I hope HBO Max steps up its DC animation offerings in the future. A Justice League revival is a no brainer.
    I mean, did you see the artwork for their Aquaman miniseries?

  10. #10
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    How successful is Invincible beyond moving Graphic novels/Trades? Lets be clear Invincible for last couple weeks has multiple books in top ten and in the top 50 on Amazon so it is has been ridiculously successful from what I can see in that area. But is just a show that got renewed and many shows yearly get renewed. You want Toys, games, Merch,etc money that trivializes the amount of money a show or even movie would make, Star wars merch on a year they make a movie makes Disney 5 to 7 Billion dollars.

    We are having a culture shift towards superhero stuff so these things should be doing better but no Invincible does not justify DC shows because none of them have come anywhere close to Invincible buzz. If you are talking just about in general yeah DC has been making animated movies that justify themselves being around without a toyline.

    The real question is why can't DC pull off Demon Slayer? We can't you make a show that does well with a group of fans that it gets a buzz and parlay that to movie that is slight better than quality of show and make good enough money. Why aren't stuff like Death of Superman or Batman Hush movies bookend of successful show?

  11. #11
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    How successful is Invincible beyond moving Graphic novels/Trades? Lets be clear Invincible for last couple weeks has multiple books in top ten and in the top 50 on Amazon so it is has been ridiculously successful from what I can see in that area. But is just a show that got renewed and many shows yearly get renewed. You want Toys, games, Merch,etc money that trivializes the amount of money a show or even movie would make, Star wars merch on a year they make a movie makes Disney 5 to 7 Billion dollars.

    We are having a culture shift towards superhero stuff so these things should be doing better but no Invincible does not justify DC shows because none of them have come anywhere close to Invincible buzz. If you are talking just about in general yeah DC has been making animated movies that justify themselves being around without a toyline.

    The real question is why can't DC pull off Demon Slayer? We can't you make a show that does well with a group of fans that it gets a buzz and parlay that to movie that is slight better than quality of show and make good enough money. Why aren't stuff like Death of Superman or Batman Hush movies bookend of successful show?
    Eh, I might be alone in this, but I'd rather not have every DC movie be tied to a show. I like having movies that require no commitment to a series before hand.

  12. #12
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, I might be alone in this, but I'd rather not have every DC movie be tied to a show. I like having movies that require no commitment to a series before hand.
    We are talking about animation arena, There is a proven process that works

    A. Get out the source material(normally in trades or graphic novels), have it be popular with a core group and that buzz slightly reaches main stream
    B. Create an animated show and its big moments from the story create buzz that go main stream
    C. The source material gets a big rise because of the animated show and does well in sales
    ****
    D. Put out a high quality animated movie from key parts of the source material and it does well in the box office

    The being able to put out a movie and it has actually impact on the box office is new phenomena for anime. I was just bringing up a simple point that stuff like Demon Slayer, Dragon Ball Super and My Hero Academia are now putting out movies that are having an impact at the box office. I don't know why we don't have a Superman, Batman and Justice League animated show that can push animated movies and comic sales.

    Invincible is 2, 3,6, 8, 17 ,19, 22, 44 on Amazon Best selling graphic novels and last week some of lower ones where higher on the list. My Hero Academia movie did 27 million at movie theaters which does not feel like a lot but for context the last Justice League animated movie made 5 million in dvd sales.

    I am just pointing out all those DC animated movies that went straight to VoD/DVD, If they were package right we might be looking at Superman or Batman animated movie making 450 million dollars. And they would be making a ton on graphic novel/trade sales as well.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 05-17-2021 at 02:47 AM.

  13. #13
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    We are talking about animation arena, There is a proven process that works

    A. Get out the source material(normally in trades or graphic novels), have it be popular with a core group and that buzz slightly reaches main stream
    B. Create an animated show and its big moments from the story create buzz that go main stream
    C. The source material gets a big rise because of the animated show and does well in sales
    ****
    D. Put out a high quality animated movie from key parts of the source material and it does well in the box office

    The being able to put out a movie and it has actually impact on the box office is new phenomena for anime. I was just bringing up a simple point that stuff like Demon Slayer, Dragon Ball Super and My Hero Academia are now putting out movies that are having an impact at the box office. I don't know why we don't have a Superman, Batman and Justice League animated show that can push animated movies and comic sales. Invincible is 2, 3,6, 8, 17 ,19, 22, 44 on Amazon Best selling graphic novels and last week some of lower ones where higher on the list. My Hero Academia movie did 27 million at movie theaters which does not feel like a lot but for context the last Justice League animated movie made 5 million in dvd sales.

    I am just pointing out all those DC animated movies that went straight to VoD/DVD, If they were package right we might be looking at Superman or Batman animated movie making 450 million dollars. And they would be making a ton on graphic novel/trade sales as well.
    I'm not saying that that process doesn't work, I'm saying that I'm personally not interested in DC copying that method. My favorite anime movies are Studio Ghibli one offs anyway, not the ones tied to a series.

  14. #14
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    I fail to see how you would be harmed by a self contained movie from a show. But you are harmed because DC creates less movies because it's solo animated movies don't do that well so you see way less of them and less variety.

    Anyways besides nobody said they wouldn't be any stand-alone stuff

  15. #15
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I fail to see how you would be harmed by a self contained movie from a show. But you are harmed because DC creates less movies because it's solo animated movies don't do that well so you see way less of them and less variety.

    Anyways besides nobody said they wouldn't be any stand-alone stuff
    I didn't say I would be harmed. Where did you infer I was implying that?

    I honestly don't think it would increase the movie output like you think it would. DC kind of operated on that model during the DCAU years. Mask of the Phantasm flopped financially and the DCAU produced only three further movies of the era.

    Currently we get 3 to 4 movies a year in the mainline, plus around 1 LEGO DC movie a year, plus another 1 or 2 unrelated movies, things like Batman Unlimited/66/Ninja/vs TMNT/meets Scooby Doo and JLA Adventures. That's often 5 movies or better per year. And there was the DC Superhero Girls movie line for a while, plus their LEGO versions.

    I don't buy the argument that I'm being hurt for a lack of animated movies. Honestly, there'll probably be even more added for HBO Max exclusive release if anything.

    Financially your idea could be a good one, but I don't care. But I don't see getting many more movies per year. Maybe less if they use it as an excuse to drop the DTVs.

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