When did you stop enjoying Spider-Man comics?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Heyo. I saw Erik Larsen tweeted today that nothing Spider-Man will ever top what Ditko and Lee did, not any idea anybody else has for a random story, and the replies were filled with people saying "but John Romita Sr perfected it! but we like your Spidey!" and he was like no.

Erik Larsen's opinion needs to be taken with a grain of salt. When comics professionals or writers praise "Stan and Steve" what they really mean is that because the original is great that means I have zero tolerance and respect for any writer/story/run that comes afterwards. It's not really about praising the originals or having an aesthetic argument it's a kind of one-upmanship. I am not saying Larsen doesn't mean what he says but he's also a professional so consciously or unconsciously, his opinion would be tinged with that.

I know Alan Moore is of the same opinion that the only Spider-Man is Ditko's.

Moore's perspective is different, and he's never been a fan of Spider-Man (not that he dislikes the character, he just leaves him cold), favoring Ditko's Doctor Strange work and his horror comics for Warren.

I think I can see where they're all coming from, because when Romita comes on he pretty's it up all around in short order whereas under Ditko it was something counter to the norm stylistically. For better or worse it was the prettied up Romita style Spider-Man that was mainstream marketed for decades after and is predominately what people saw. Not throwing shade at Romita or his contributions, just observations.

If you read Ditko's run, when Peter's going to college, in ASM#34 or 35 Ditko!Gwen sends a girl Sally to hit on Peter as part of her manipulative schemes, and Sally has this thought bubble that goes that Peter is really dreamy, and Ditko's college-era Peter is drawn to be better looking than high school Peter. So Ditko himself already started the process of gussying-up the titles. So I'd say Alan Moore is wrong when he says that Romita prettied up Ditko because Ditko himself was prettying things up.

The thing to understand is that Ditko always saw Spider-Man as a commercial gig and Doctor Strange was far more personal to him as an artist and storyteller. What that means is that Ditko didn't really have any hard-set opinions about how Spider-Man should be, all his actions bear that out. So the fact is that John Romita Sr. is different from Ditko's in a lot of respects but in a lot of essential ways he's consistent to the roadmap Ditko set out. Artistically and aesthetically, the Lee-Ditko run is one of the greatest stretches in any comic, superhero or otherwise, that real-time growth and progression (which yeah, Ditko was totally on-board for), the mix of action and humor, realism and fantasy. There's something in that which always feels fresh and which is so hard to boil down to a formula and you can see so many Marvel editors and writers/editors misread and misinterpret that.

Anyway, when people say that Ditko was the best Spider-Man has been, individually if you break it down:
-- Kraven's Last Hunt is better than any Ditko story aside from The Master-Planner Saga.
-- Some of the greatest fights and battle sequences -- The owl/octopus war, Nothing can stop the Juggernaut! -- happen in the '80s.
-- If you like teenage and high school Spider-Man, there's way more teenage and high-school Spider-Man in Busiek's UNTOLD TALES than in the original run (most of which takes place at the Daily Bugle featuring very little action in the high school setting that people think is oh-so essential to this era).
-- Some of the best stuff with the supporting cast, with Aunt May and Jameson happens several issues down the line.
-- The romance and love story is way better after this run than with it, even if Ditko set up Mary Jane to be the main love interest of the title in his run.
-- The later Spider-Man stories have more diversity in supporting-cast and stories -- Robbie Robertson comes in the L-R era for instance. The Ditko era is almost entirely white (aside from some background extras in Peter's graduation class). And of course Miles Morales is now at the center of the mythos.

My feeling is that Carl Barks being great at Donald Duck, doesn't mean that Don Rosa or Romano Scarpa or other artist-writers working in Disney comics afterwards are somehow posers and losers. Ditko being great doesn't mean stuff that came later is somehow inferior or lesser for being so.

[H-E-D]

Probably around Spider-Verse? The event, not the superb film.

[Spider-Man11]

When Slott "killed" Pete- Everything that has come later does not feel so "Spidey" for me. Mostly now, I don't know... not bad stories at all an Amazing, but it seems like I'm reading another character.

[Celgress]

When Slott "killed" Pete- Everything that has come later does not feel so "Spidey" for me. Mostly now, I don't know... not bad stories at all an Amazing, but it seems like I'm reading another character.

This is my vibe as well (post-OMD).

Yay, 10,000 posts baby!

[Spider-Man11]

This is my vibe as well (post-OMD).

Yay, 10,000 posts baby!

Congrats on your 10,000th post baby!

[your_name_here]

I dropped it after OMD and then jumped back on with Spencer’s run (and the red goblin arc just before)

I know some people have issues with Spencer’s run, but I’m loving it.

[Shadowcat]

Are you reading Spencers run

I am, not caught up on it though. Hopefully will be by June.

[Lindsey]

Right after Slott came on, I gave up, came back as soon as he left.

[Celgress]

Congrats on your 10,000th post baby!

Thank you very much and welcome to the boards.

PS nice avatar, I've always loved images of Spidey in mid-swing.

[esskay]

BND had me wavering, but Slott taking over completely killed it for me.

This.

I voted for BND, but really it was Slott that killed it for me. Though I enjoyed the Superior Spider-Man story, ridiculous epics like Spider-Island and Spider-Verse just weren't something I was interested in reading. The character was blatantly not the same person any more.

I got into Spider-Man as a 5-year-old, reading a Spider-Man who was clearly in his 20s, and that was fine with me. I never got the idea that he needed to act like a teenager. Previously, as recently as JMS, Spider-Man had an essentially realistic tone, including (slow) aging. Of course, not one detail stood up to scrutiny as realistic in any way, but the stories took place in a world that roughly resembled our own and involved characters, including Peter Parker, who would interact with each other in believable human ways.

Post-BND, and especially with Slott, that was gone. Nobody behaved in a way that made any sense. Stories like Spider-Island essentially destroyed any semblance of a realistic world (I appreciate that stories in other comics had done this previously, but Spider-Man was the only Marvel - or superhero - comic I read, and I liked that these huge events for the most part kept away). I continued through the Slott years to maintain an unbroken run of ASM, and in the hope that things would improve when he left.

I bought ASM #1 in 2018 and that was it. This was the Slott character still, and I wasn't interested. I haven't bought another issue - in fact, I sold everything back to BND on Ebay, so there's no going back. That's me done forever - except for, of course, checking out places like this from time to time to get a sense of what's going on.

[Ozymandias]

This.

I voted for BND, but really it was Slott that killed it for me. Though I enjoyed the Superior Spider-Man story, ridiculous epics like Spider-Island and Spider-Verse just weren't something I was interested in reading. The character was blatantly not the same person any more.

I got into Spider-Man as a 5-year-old, reading a Spider-Man who was clearly in his 20s, and that was fine with me. I never got the idea that he needed to act like a teenager. Previously, as recently as JMS, Spider-Man had an essentially realistic tone, including (slow) aging. Of course, not one detail stood up to scrutiny as realistic in any way, but the stories took place in a world that roughly resembled our own and involved characters, including Peter Parker, who would interact with each other in believable human ways.

Post-BND, and especially with Slott, that was gone. Nobody behaved in a way that made any sense. Stories like Spider-Island essentially destroyed any semblance of a realistic world (I appreciate that stories in other comics had done this previously, but Spider-Man was the only Marvel - or superhero - comic I read, and I liked that these huge events for the most part kept away). I continued through the Slott years to maintain an unbroken run of ASM, and in the hope that things would improve when he left.

I bought ASM #1 in 2018 and that was it. This was the Slott character still, and I wasn't interested. I haven't bought another issue - in fact, I sold everything back to BND on Ebay, so there's no going back. That's me done forever - except for, of course, checking out places like this from time to time to get a sense of what's going on.

More of the same is what's going on. There's no fundamental difference between Slott and Spencer, which is a shame since his Superior Foes were much funnier than his ASM has been (the only times when he even comes close, are those moments where Fred steals the limelight).

[phonogram12]

The only time I've ever outright refused to try a direction they had in mind for Spidey was when he became a CEO or whatever. I get having to try new directions every once in awhile and how he can't constantly remain a broke 20 something forever, but that's pretty much the anti-Spider-Man as far as I'm concerned.

[GeneTitan]

I lost my love for Spider-Man after OMD. Before that arc, the book was incredible and Spider-Man was my favorite character. There was so much growth and it felt like the events happening in the book were one series of organically occurring events. I still think Spider-Man is the greatest superhero, but he's no longer my favorite. OMD took a lot away from what was happening with Pete.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I never really stopped enjoying Spider-Man comics. I love some of Nick Spencer's work and Zdarksy's work on Spider-Man.

That said, generally speaking, Spider-Man comics haven't been as consistently solid as pre-BND comics. JMS' run, Paul Jenkins' run, Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Knights: Spider-Man, Blue, To Have and To Hold, Spider-Man/Human Torch... The 2000s were a solid time for Spider-Man comics, in spite of Sins Past and OMD happening then too.

[NC_Yankee]

More of the same is what's going on. There's no fundamental difference between Slott and Spencer, which is a shame since his Superior Foes were much funnier than his ASM has been (the only times when he even comes close, are those moments where Fred steals the limelight).

I am increasingly sharing that opinion. Why? Peter was a punching bag under Slott and he might be getting it even worse under Spencer. Slott is more overt ( the snarky comments like “Charlie Brown”) but Spencer has been more covert ( “The Damsel In Distress” stuff). What is frightening is Slott gave us Renew Your Vows which is better then any Spencer story ( Gibbon might be on par with Spider Island). To be fair I will say Felicia and MJ are written better (Queen Pin is the worst Felicia story ever). But I do not read Spider-Man to see Peter lose just like I do not watch the Yankees, Islanders or Arizona State to see them lose. I am getting to the point where I will drop the comic if things do not change.