View Poll Results: I stopped enjoying reading Spider-Man comics when...

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  • Ditko left

    1 1.11%
  • Marvel Time began

    0 0%
  • Gwen Stacy died

    0 0%
  • the symbiote costume debuted

    0 0%
  • Image Comics was founded

    3 3.33%
  • Heroes Reborn started

    3 3.33%
  • BND happened

    40 44.44%
  • SpOck appeared

    3 3.33%
  • Slott left

    8 8.89%
  • hell froze over (still liking it).

    32 35.56%
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I am increasingly sharing that opinion. Why? Peter was a punching bag under Slott and he might be getting it even worse under Spencer. Slott is more overt ( the snarky comments like “Charlie Brown”) but Spencer has been more covert ( “The Damsel In Distress” stuff). What is frightening is Slott gave us Renew Your Vows which is better then any Spencer story ( Gibbon might be on par with Spider Island). To be fair I will say Felicia and MJ are written better (Queen Pin is the worst Felicia story ever). But I do not read Spider-Man to see Peter lose just like I do not watch the Yankees, Islanders or Arizona State to see them lose. I am getting to the point where I will drop the comic if things do not change.
    I actually prefer when Slott does without the funny act, stories like No One Dies or No Survivors. Spencer's claim to fame, on the other hand, I'd say it was Superior Foes, so it was kind of surprising for me, to see him not being able to adapt to Amazing, and that the best he's done in the title is the Gibbon story.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    I actually prefer when Slott does without the funny act, stories like No One Dies or No Survivors. Spencer's claim to fame, on the other hand, I'd say it was Superior Foes, so it was kind of surprising for me, to see him not being able to adapt to Amazing, and that the best he's done in the title is the Gibbon story.
    I agree with you, you mentioned some good Slott stories. It is almost like Spencer wants to be the anti-Slott. I can say that with the exception of some MJ stuff the entire Spencer run has been grim. Where are stuff like the Spider-Man quips? They were a nice break in the action ( especially when dealing with Otto, Kraven and Doom ( because those three are so arrogant)). I do not want Peter to be a kid ( like in MCU), a man-child and ( or) a clown ( it was established right from the beginning ( Uncle Ben’s death) that Spider-Man is serious stuff, but there needs to be some better balance in the comic, Slott took it too far in one direction, and Spencer too far in the other. I hope that whoever writes ASM next, will do just that.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 05-31-2021 at 04:30 AM.

  3. #48
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    Dropped the book after OMD. I have not read the book for almost 10 years. A year ago I picked up spencer run but dropped again. I do not have much enthusiam for Spiderman.

  4. #49
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    Never! He's one of my favorite heroes.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I agree with you, you mentioned some good Slott stories. It is almost like Spencer wants to be the anti-Slott. I can say that with the exception of some MJ stuff the entire Spencer run has been grim.
    I think this is an oversimplification of the Spencer run. The Hunted and Kindred story arcs were grim, sure, but the majority of the run has dealt with Peter Parker rooming with an actual b-list supervillain and them having an adorable pet alien. There was a whole story about them going to the Bar With no Name for a trivia contest.

    (This actually relates to my theory that a lot of the love Spencer gets on this board is tied to the supposition that he is either going to restore the Spider-marriage or undo OMD, and if either of those don't end up happening, that these boards will be filled with people dismissing Spencer's run as "the one where Spider-Man and Boomerang were roommates." For my part, I've found Spencer to be an enjoyable but pretty average ASM writer, but I do think posters on this board write about what they *think* his run is doing versus what's actually in the printed comics.)

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    I think this is an oversimplification of the Spencer run. The Hunted and Kindred story arcs were grim, sure, but the majority of the run has dealt with Peter Parker rooming with an actual b-list supervillain and them having an adorable pet alien. There was a whole story about them going to the Bar With no Name for a trivia contest.

    (This actually relates to my theory that a lot of the love Spencer gets on this board is tied to the supposition that he is either going to restore the Spider-marriage or undo OMD, and if either of those don't end up happening, that these boards will be filled with people dismissing Spencer's run as "the one where Spider-Man and Boomerang were roommates." For my part, I've found Spencer to be an enjoyable but pretty average ASM writer, but I do think posters on this board write about what they *think* his run is doing versus what's actually in the printed comics.)
    I do not expect OMD to be erased and I especially do not see the marriage restored ( I would love to be pleasantly surprised), and Boomerang as a roommate is not that big of an issue to me. But I certainly think Kindred should have been finished two years ago, and there were too many unnecessary plot lines and characters to it. It should have been about Peter, The Osborn’s, MJ and ( if he wanted to tie it into OMD) Mephisto. Sin Eater, The Order of the Web, Mysterio, Carlie and everyone else was not needed. He is repeating the same mistake with Chameleon and Theresa. That too should have been over two years ago ( I wonder what will happen with the 2099 story?). It is like Spencer bit off more then he can chew. But what bothers me is the “Damsel In Distress” stuff followed by not allowing Peter to win without help. That aggravates me ( especially losing to someone like Fisk with no superpowers).

  7. #52

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    I dropped ASM after OMD. I was convinced by some fans on the old CBR Spidey boards to give BND a try and I very quickly dropped it again. Long story short, I haven't read ASM since 2008; and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

  8. #53
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    We have a tie now, there's as much people dissatisfied with BND as still enjoying Spider-Man comics. There's also a qualified majority of fans who stopped enjoying them at some point. I wasn't expecting such a landslide. Do we know if it affects sales?

  9. #54
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    OMD/BND was right about when I completely stopped caring for the Spider-Man comics. That moment was when Peter Parker stopped growing as a character and ended up the "forever loser" we see now. And all of it stemming from the insecurities of the top brass in the editing department at Marvel. Guess they wanted Peter to be someone they could relate to better.

    And they really need to cut it out with the Deadpool-esque dialogue for Spider-Man. It's not clever or amusing.
    Last edited by Citizen Kane; 05-31-2021 at 12:09 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    We have a tie now, there's as much people dissatisfied with BND as still enjoying Spider-Man comics. There's also a qualified majority of fans who stopped enjoying them at some point. I wasn't expecting such a landslide. Do we know if it affects sales?
    I am one of those who got angry starting with the cover of BND ( the way Peter looked is basically a preview of what he became: A Man-Child). But I did not quit the comic because I expected a bad story ( like The Other or Shed) not a never ending story that has been going on for 13 years ( and counting). After Slott left the book I decided to give ASM another chance, and I was initially pleased, but over the past year the comic is getting worse and worse. Why? I have given a few reasons before ( including Peter as a loser and the “Damsel In Distress”) but another one is Spencer’s stories like Kindred never seem to end. It is like one big Soap Opera ( the kind my mother and grandmother used to watch). I did not like them as a kid, and I certainly do not like them as an adult. The last Kingpin story ( although not quite as bad) is having the same effect on me as Silk did: A realization that OMD is going nowhere. If I am right, I am finished.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 05-31-2021 at 12:45 PM.

  11. #56
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    I stopped enjoying during Civil War. I stopped reading entirely after Spiderman 600

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I do not expect OMD to be erased and I especially do not see the marriage restored ( I would love to be pleasantly surprised), and Boomerang as a roommate is not that big of an issue to me. But I certainly think Kindred should have been finished two years ago, and there were too many unnecessary plot lines and characters to it. It should have been about Peter, The Osborn’s, MJ and ( if he wanted to tie it into OMD) Mephisto. Sin Eater, The Order of the Web, Mysterio, Carlie and everyone else was not needed. He is repeating the same mistake with Chameleon and Theresa. That too should have been over two years ago ( I wonder what will happen with the 2099 story?). It is like Spencer bit off more then he can chew. But what bothers me is the “Damsel In Distress” stuff followed by not allowing Peter to win without help. That aggravates me ( especially losing to someone like Fisk with no superpowers).
    I think you highlighted why I enjoyed the BND era more than most people. While we didn't get a lot of classic characters (actually we got more focus on the Daily Bugle/DB than we had in a while), it felt like people actually existed in his comics.

    Spencer's run feels so barren right now. No real interesting characters. Just more stuff that we've retread.

  13. #58
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    No disrespect to writers like Alan Moore, but the "Ditko left" position strikes me as another way of saying Spider-Man should be regressed to his high school self, albeit in a different way from OMD. I mean, the subtext there seems to be that it was somehow unrealistic and/or problematic that an 18-year old outgrew his avoidant attachment style, learned how to take better care of his looks, and developed a more positive outlook on life. You kinda need all of those things to complete the coming-of-age part of Spider-Man. I don't think even Ditko would have wanted Peter to stay as he left him, but even if he did, that wouldn't have necessarily been a good thing, and for obvious reasons.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    No disrespect to writers like Alan Moore, but the "Ditko left" position strikes me as another way of saying Spider-Man should be regressed to his high school self, albeit in a different way from OMD.
    That's not how Moore meant it. Moore was looking at it from a creative and aesthetic perspective not in terms of continuity-stuff or an idea of the right age for the character which he doesn't care for at all. Moore is generally speaking not a fan of Spider-Man and the Ditko he prefers is the creator of Dr. Strange and the one who created horror comics for Warren Comics. Moore has said multiple times that Ditko's best work is the horror comics he did for Warren (under editor/writer Archie Goodwin) right after he quit Marvel, and just before he went full objectivist.

    The only other time Moore has referred to Spider-Man is a 1982 essay on Stan Lee called "Blinded by the Hype" in which he refers to what he sees as the decay of Marvel Comics, and his views make it clear what his attitude to Spider-Man aging would be: "The worst thing was that everything had ground to a halt. The books had stopped developing. If you take a look at a current Spider-Man comic, you’ll find that he’s maybe twenty years old, he worries a lot about whats right and what’s wrong, and he has a lot of trouble with his girlfriends. Do you know what Spider-Man was doing fifteen years ago? Well, he was about nineteen years old, he worried a lot about what was right and what was wrong and he had a lot of trouble with his girlfriends." (https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/dynami...an-lee*******/)

    So Moore is not at all on the side of keeping characters stagnant or refusing to have them age-up. The issue of Spider-Man comics being at a peak in Ditko's term is an aesthetic one, i.e. in terms of artistic quality. In the same way people say that the best Donald Duck comics are by Carl Barks (though some argue that Don Rosa is great too). But that's not the same as arguing as that somehow keeping comics exactly the way it was in Barks' run is all we should be doing.

    The Ditko run of Spider-Man is always going to be fascinating in that you can see the book emerging and shaping before your eyes and every single development and advance in Spider-Man (including the marriage) was basically prefigured and foreshadowed (albeit unintentionally) in Ditko's run. So to me saying that "only Ditko" implies "only high school Spider-Man" is a false dichotomy and one that cedes vital real estate (wrongfully) to the opposing camp, when in fact those in favor of Spider-Man growing and changing have a stronger and deeper, and provably righteous claim, to Ditko than the high-schoolers.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 06-01-2021 at 01:57 PM.

  15. #60
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    Generally, I think I lost interest as a kid when the deal with Venom was made, so I guess it was around the time Image was up and running. The issue is, Venom had done horrible things and being popular, oh we need to turn him into a anti-hero, but it didn't make sense. He wasn't a grey character, he was shown as a villain and a monster. It compromised Peter to chase 90s trends. Of course, soon would come the Clone Saga. Then we fast forward and Joe Q's nonsense damages the scope of canon beyond his influence, which I think is a crappy thing for any creative person to do. Spider-Man was the first comic I collected regularly, so it sucks to kind of remove yourself from trying to care. Also, the MCU turned him into hype man for Iron Man/Tony and no mention of Uncle Ben. That's sad.

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